[Tagging] Dispute on tagging place=* in Turkmenistan

Kevin Kenny kevin.b.kenny at gmail.com
Wed Jan 2 18:01:19 UTC 2019

On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 11:39 AM Simon Poole <simon at poole.ch> wrote:
> In any case, on your original question, I would tend towards a national consensus that doesn't deviate too much from the population guidelines in the wiki, if at all reasonable. The US-Hamlet usage is an oddity that, IMHO, should not serve as a role model.

What's odd?

Our administrative boundaries? I can't fix that. (Sometimes, I do
think US mappers get treated with "the tagging model is fine, fix your
country!" but I don't *think* that's what you're arguing here.)  We
also have administrative regions with indefinite boundaries, which
means that there's some force-fitting in OSM - but that's what we
have. Not all our county lines have ever been surveyed. (US government
practice is to map them with a fainter line and the words INDEFINITE
BOUNDARY as at https://caltopo.com/l/D1KV.)

Our data modelling? In US practice, place=* is based on relative
importance, not on legal designation. Any boundary=administrative, of
course, has to follow the legal designation, and in New York at least,
the designations of 'city', 'town', 'village' and 'hamlet' are based
on form of government, not on size or importance. That's why we
*don't* use them to inform place=*, but represent them with
admin_level=*. (Otherwise, it's a total mess, because of the size
inversions that I mentioned.)

By the way, I'd call it a 'New York State hamlet usage', because other
states have other forms of municipal government. That's why we have
that involved table on the Wiki for mapping the administrative regions
of the different states to admin_level=*.  Also, our admin_level's are
not strictly hierarchical, because our municipal governments aren't
either. But we don't have the luxury of making our politics fit our

Making place=* depend on relative importance or population, while
boundary=administrative depends on political organization, seems to
follow accepted OSM practice, as far as I can tell. Where have we gone

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