[Tagging] Trailhead tagging

Peter Elderson pelderson at gmail.com
Fri Jan 4 12:08:49 UTC 2019


Op do 3 jan. 2019 om 13:22 schreef Marc Gemis <marc.gemis at gmail.com>:

> I wonder why it is under "highway", it seems more related to "tourism"
> / "information".


Current usage: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/highway=trailhead

Overpass shows most usage is in the US, Canada and Japan, now also
Nederland, and some in Italy.

highway can be applied to nodes and ways, and it compares nicely to
highway=bus_stop. A trailhead is then seen as a "trail stop" for trail
"passengers".  I think that's why it was chosen in the trailhead proposal.
I saw no compelling reason to change that, even though I can see your
argument to use tourism=.

Advantage of highway= is that you can still add the tourism= key for an
information board if it coincides with the trailhead.

Do you see an actual problem with this usage?


> Another problem I see is that there is no other definition for

trailheads in The Netherlands than "location being picked by the
> tourist agency as trailhead" or better "location being designated by
> the tourist agency as TOP"
> It seems to me that any other definition means that one has to map
> many more places in The Netherlands as trailhead or that some of the
> "picked by tourist agency" are not a trailhead.
>

Lots of places give access to trails, of course. But if they are not
visibly designated/designed and operated (not just picked!), I would not
map those places as trailheads. No one has to do that. On the other hand,
in other countries useers may see fit to map those kind of locations as
trailheads, because they want to search/list them and see them on a map.

Given that the Dutch community has a very specific definition of
> trailhead, I wonder whether this can  be solved by a dedicated tag
> (tourism=top) or subtag (tourism=information;information=top) ? The
> benefit would be to avoid confusion with a more general definition of
> trailheads (whatever that might be).
>

I fear that this would cause more confusion than it solves! I would like
not to go principle and exact definition about this, and just take the
practical approach: If a place fits the very general description I
suggested, then if a mapper sees fit, (s)he may use the trailhead tag. I'm
sure the local/regional community will moderate if necessary, to ensure the
tagging fits their situation.


>
> m.
>
> On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 10:21 AM Peter Elderson <pelderson at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Please note that the description of official TOPs in Nederland is not
> intended as a limitative requirement for trailheads around the globe.
> >
> > If we would mark every access point to a route as a trailhead,
> Nederland would be covered with trailheads, and nobody would have any use
> for the information. So we limit it to these specially designed "official"
> transit places. These can be usefully listed, searched, and presented based
> on the OSM data. Other countries may differ in what's useful, thats fine.
> >  And that's why the idea is just to mark a node as highway=trailhead and
> (usually) a name.
> >
> > About the name: it's common to list places with names. The operator must
> have some kind of name or reference. Even when there is no special name on
> a sign, you still need to describe the thing, maybe using the name of the
> trail and which end (north, or a town name, road name, or..).  Or name of
> the park and numbered acces points, something.
> > If there really is nothing of the sort, and the place is still deemed as
> useful to map, fine. Could still be useful to display them on a POI map or
> hiking map, but search by name is then impossible.
> >
> >
> >
> > Op do 3 jan. 2019 om 09:23 schreef Mark Wagner <mark+osm at carnildo.com>:
> >>
> >> On Wed, 2 Jan 2019 20:57:04 +0100
> >> Peter Elderson <pelderson at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Copying from an earlier response: Designated starting point for
> >> > multiple routes into a nature area.  There is a designed marking pole
> >> > or stele, information boards, seats or benches, free parking space
> >> > nearby. This one is in a small village:
> >> >
> https://www.google.nl/maps/@52.4336993,6.834158,3a,75y,191.07h,84.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sby0P5NTeyqR3fyrgDNqCOA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=nl
> >> >
> >> > Here is another one, with emphasis on Parking. On the left behind the
> >> > parking is the actual access point to the trails.
> >> >
> https://www.google.nl/maps/@51.6284198,5.0889629,3a,76.4y,32.53h,96.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sy3HdYWJ2zZ1rw1ozqJyrXw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=nl
> >> >
> >> > The operators are governmental bodies. They publish the lists on
> >> > recreation websites. Each province has its own list. VVV of course
> >> > lists/presents them as well.
> >> >
> >> > These points are designed for trail access.
> >> >
> >>
> >> There's a definite disconnect in definitions here.
> >>
> >> Looking at "Nationaal Park De Loonse en Drunense Duinen", there are
> >> nearly a dozen places that that I would probably call trailheads:
> >>
> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.63153/5.06300
> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.65683/5.07140
> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.65623/5.08233
> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/51.66740/5.08273
> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.67192/5.07931
> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.66658/5.14424
> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.65640/5.15269
> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.63970/5.14803
> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.63535/5.11149
> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.63125/5.09456
> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.62901/5.08933
> >>
> >> only two of which appear to be designated as such.  I also found
> >> about as many locations where I'd expect to find a trailhead, informal
> >> or otherwise.
> >>
> >> Compare to the main section of Riverside State Park, a park in the
> >> western United States of comparable size and urban-ness, with nine named
> >> trailheads and about a dozen unnamed ones:
> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=13/47.7429/-117.5226
> >>
> >> None of them meets the Netherlands definition of a trailhead.   Sontag
> >> Park trailhead probably comes the closest, lacking only a marking
> >> pole/stele.  The rest are paid parking, and most of them lack benches
> >> and information boards as well as markers.
> >>
> >> (Incidentally, if you insist on "starting point" rather than "access
> >> point", only two of them are trailheads: Nine Mile, the starting point
> >> for the Spokane Centennial Trail, and the equestrian-area trailhead,
> >> starting point for 25-Mile Trail.)
> >>
> >> --
> >> Mark
> >>
> >>
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> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Vr gr Peter Elderson
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-- 
Vr gr Peter Elderson
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