[Tagging] Creating shop=caravan

Dave Swarthout daveswarthout at gmail.com
Sun Jan 13 09:09:04 UTC 2019


Back to the caravan vs motorhome distinction for a moment. By the way,
Martin's page was in regard to access, so it's not so relevant to this
discussion except to acknowledge that the term motorhome is in existence.
Graeme mentioned propulsion so I assumed we were talking about what in the
U.S. would be called motorhomes. Maybe then two top-level tags are needed,
as he suggested. One for caravans or trailers, another for powered
motorhomes, aka RVs. The pages could be similar in tagging scheme but have
differing subtags.

Bu that seems both wasteful and will likely be confusing. We could
distinguish between the two basic varieties, motorized or trailer in some
other tag.

Dave

PS: Martin's idea about OSM v2.0. Good one, Martin!

On Sun, Jan 13, 2019 at 3:51 PM Dave Swarthout <daveswarthout at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Warin, You're in Australia, right? When I was traveling in New Zealand I'm
> pretty sure they called small motorhomes caravans. But maybe not.
>
> I have no personal knowledge of the word caravan. To me, it makes no sense
> at all to label anything having wheels as a caravan when everyone knows a
> caravan is a string of freight-hauling camels negotiating the Sahara. I say
> that in jest but yet, here we are again getting fouled up with usages in
> different countries. We are stuck with tourism=caravan_site as well. Nobody
> in the U.S. would ever refer to a campground hosting RVs and camping
> trailers as a caravan_site or caravan_park but in OSM, of course, we must
> do just that.
>
> Anyway, my reply needn't be restricted to "caravans" or trailers. It's
> merely an idea I wanted to mention. Just now, Martin replied with a page
> about motorhomes. I'll take a look and get back to you.
>
> On Sun, Jan 13, 2019 at 3:36 PM Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 13/01/19 19:06, Dave Swarthout wrote:
>>
>> >Possibly a separate page again for shop=motorhome? (I think that would
>> be a good coverall term?)
>>
>> I would prefer that but it's an American term. We might as well just stay
>> with caravan. Plus, I do think the tag you're proposing could, with enough
>> thought, be made to work for all types of recreational_vehicles/caravans.
>>
>> There is a difference.
>> Caravans attach to a motor vehicle for moment.
>> Motor homes/campers are self propelled.
>>
>>
>> There was a thread just a while ago on this list discussing ti-lo's solo
>> initiative to upgrade motorcycle=shop tagging. It was/is a sensible scheme
>> that integrated the functions of dealer, parts shop and accessories shop by
>> using subtags to make the distinctions. (See the Services section:
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:shop%3Dmotorcycle#Services_tags).
>> His scheme was criticized because he didn't discuss it fully enough on this
>> list but aside from that, I liked the idea. The main tag and all subtags
>> except those that already stand on their own, begin with the same keyword,
>> motorcycle, and proceed from there, adding as much detail as desired or
>> known.
>>
>> Hence, one might have
>> caravan:parts=yes
>> caravan:accessories=yes/no
>> caravan:sales=yes/no
>> caravan:type=type_a/type_b/type_c/fifth_wheel/trailer
>>
>> type?  caravan:classification=* ? classifications could be local legal
>> ones. Other things are descriptions .. and OSM has a tag for that.
>>
>> second_hand=yes/only
>> caravan:propulsion=trailer/yes/solar_powered (wishful thinking)  [also
>> gas/diesel?]
>>
>> I say again, caravans are not self propelled - they need to be pulled
>> along by something.
>> Oxford Dictionary: A vehicle equipped for living in, typically towed by
>> a car.
>> Origin Late 15th century (in caravan (sense 2)): from French caravane,
>> from Persian kārwān. The sense ‘covered horse-drawn wagon’ dates from the
>> early 19th century.
>>
>>
>> The caravan:types are well-known to anyone shopping for RVs (in America
>> for sure but Europe or Asia, I dunno) but the tag is optional. Use it for
>> fine-grained tagging, ignore it otherwise.
>>
>>
>> In the UK smaller 'back' roads are narrow - Toyota Landcrusiers are seen
>> as too wide, an American small Winabago is UK huge.
>>
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 13, 2019 at 1:01 PM Graeme Fitzpatrick <graemefitz1 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, 13 Jan 2019 at 13:06, Dave Swarthout <daveswarthout at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm assuming that this tagging scheme is also for a shop that sells
>>>> only caravan parts and accessories but not caravans.
>>>>
>>>
>>> No, I've tried to set it up selling (dealer) as well as parts, repair &
>>> rental. Any other options you can think of, or better ways to word things?
>>>
>>>
>>>> Also, I see you've decided not to be specific about the type or style
>>>> of caravan sold. I would think caravan:style or caravan:class might be
>>>> useful to distinguish between type_a, type_c, fifth-wheel, trailer, etc.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Couple of people have suggested that & I've asked some questions about
>>> "how" but no feedback yet
>>>
>>> On Tue, 8 Jan 2019 at 07:54, Graeme Fitzpatrick <graemefitz1 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Possibly something like caravan:type=caravan / motorhome / Winnebago /
>>>> camper trailer etc, but then you get to the problem of what is difference
>>>> between a camper van, motorhome & Winnebago?
>>>>
>>>
>>> motorised=yes / no?
>>>
>>> propulsion=towed / motorised?
>>>
>>> Possibly a separate page again for shop=motorhome? (I think that would
>>> be a good coverall term?)
>>>
>>> It's also, at least in the US, very common for a dealer
>>>> to sell one or the other, but not both.
>>>
>>>
>>> But if we use a separate page, won't you have the same problem that
>>> you'll only be able to find one or the other?
>>>
>>> As I mentioned earlier, if we had
>>>
>>> caravan:type=caravan / motorhome / camper_trailer
>>>
>>> would you be able to search for the type you want?
>>>
>>> So, any thoughts?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Graeme
>>>
>>> PS How you going using Warin's suggestion to create pages? :-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Dave Swarthout
>> Homer, Alaska
>> Chiang Mai, Thailand
>> Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
>>
>>
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>
>
> --
> Dave Swarthout
> Homer, Alaska
> Chiang Mai, Thailand
> Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
>


-- 
Dave Swarthout
Homer, Alaska
Chiang Mai, Thailand
Travel Blog at http://dswarthout.blogspot.com
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