[Tagging] Drain vs ditch

severin.menard severin.menard at protonmail.com
Wed Jan 30 15:02:43 UTC 2019


Thanks for having wrapped up the many discussions on this topic, I was indeed interested by the topic (while non participating for having just a basic knowledge of these objects) but did not manage to get the full thread though. I would suggest in the future to modify the title of the thread when by adding eg [wrap up] or whatever for the list followers to know that the discussion has come to this level.
I found Eugene's text great and will translate it into French once there is an agreement on it, but I was also wondering what small and large meant. Is there a (n official) source backing up the 5m width threshold for a ditch?

Sincerely,

Severin


‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
Le mercredi 30 janvier 2019 07:16, <tagging-request at openstreetmap.org> a écrit :

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> Today's Topics:
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> 1.  Re: fence with wall base (marc marc)
> 2.  Re: Drain vs ditch (Warin)
> 3.  Re: Drain vs ditch (Joseph Eisenberg)
> 4.  Re: Drain vs ditch (Eugene Podshivalov)
>
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 09:45:44 +0000
> From: marc marc marc_marc_irc at hotmail.com
> To: "tagging at openstreetmap.org" tagging at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Tagging] fence with wall base
> Message-ID:
> DB6P190MB027987411E63A97259295B24B7900 at DB6P190MB0279.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM
>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Le 30.01.19 à 09:41, Jérôme Seigneuret a écrit :
>
> > How can I. edit a wall+fence with height details?
> > barrier=wall;fence
> > 0 is base of the barrier same as building
>
> barrier=fence
> barrier:height=1.50
> barrier:type=chain_link
>
> support=wall
> support:height=0.50
> support:material=masonry
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 21:00:29 +1100
> From: Warin 61sundowner at gmail.com
> To: tagging at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch
> Message-ID: f9dc0893-d538-73df-4d68-26745c68982c at gmail.com
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> Large means?
> Small means?
>
> To me I'd use small = I can step over it, large means I cannot step over
> it .. so ~1.1 metres is the line between the two.
>
> On 30/01/19 19:56, Eugene Podshivalov wrote:
>
> > Here is a summary of the discussion to check if there is a consensus.
> > Current definitions of artificial waterways are unclear and ambiguous.
> > Some people assume that ditch and drain differ mainly in size, others
> > differentiate them mainly on liquid type (can or cannot carry
> > industrial discharge), others rely on lined or unlined characteristic.
> > It is suggested to resolve the ambiguities by updating the definitions
> > as follows.
> > canal - Large man-made open flow (free flow vs pipe flow) waterways
> > used to carry useful water for transportation, hydro-power generation,
> > irrigation or land drainage purposes. Consider using waterway=ditch
> > for small irrigation or land drainage channels. Consider using
> > waterway=drain for small usually lined superflous liquid drainage
> > channels.
> > drain - Small artificial free flow waterways usually lined with
> > concrete or similar used for carrying away superflous liquid like rain
> > water or industrial discharge without letting it soak into the ground.
> > Consider using waterway=ditch for unlined channels used to drain
> > nearby wet land. Consider using waterway=canal for large unlined land
> > drainage channels.
> > ditch - Small artificial free flow waterways used for irrigating dry
> > land or draining wet land. Irrigation ditches can be lined or unlined,
> > drainage ditches are usually unlined to let water soak through the
> > land into them. Ditches may have short lined segments at waterway
> > turning points or intersections with roads or paths to prevent
> > erosion. Consider using waterway=canal for large irrigation or land
> > drainage channels. Consider using waterway=drain for usually lined
> > superflous liquid drainage channels.
> > Cheers,
> > Eugene
> > вт, 29 янв. 2019 г. в 18:32, marc marc <marc_marc_irc at hotmail.com
> > mailto:marc_marc_irc at hotmail.com>:
> >
> >     Le 29.01.19 à 16:13, Eugene Podshivalov a écrit :
> >     > How to we proceed with this topic? Should a proposal be created
> >     or the
> >     > wiki pages can be updated straight away by someone or myself
> >     based on
> >     > this discussion?
> >
> >     maybe it's a good idea to write a small-summary-only post
> >     to check if there is a consensus on this, because there are probably
> >     many participants who have dropped out given the number of emails
> >     that
> >     the subject has generated
> >     _______________________________________________
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> >     Tagging at openstreetmap.org <mailto:Tagging at openstreetmap.org>
> >     https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
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> >
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>
> Message: 3
> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 19:00:26 +0900
> From: Joseph Eisenberg joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com
> To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"
> tagging at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch
> Message-ID:
> CAP_2vPgsv=4xuGN=HQ4WUeStzyvJPBo3cK4v7UFCjP90r1+wMw at mail.gmail.com
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Those descriptions look good
> On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 5:58 PM Eugene Podshivalov yaugenka at gmail.com
> wrote:
>
> > Here is a summary of the discussion to check if there is a consensus.
> > Current definitions of artificial waterways are unclear and ambiguous.
> > Some people assume that ditch and drain differ mainly in size, others
> > differentiate them mainly on liquid type (can or cannot carry industrial
> > discharge), others rely on lined or unlined characteristic.
> > It is suggested to resolve the ambiguities by updating the definitions as
> > follows.
> > canal - Large man-made open flow (free flow vs pipe flow) waterways used
> > to carry useful water for transportation, hydro-power generation,
> > irrigation or land drainage purposes. Consider using waterway=ditch for
> > small irrigation or land drainage channels. Consider using waterway=drain
> > for small usually lined superflous liquid drainage channels.
> > drain - Small artificial free flow waterways usually lined with concrete
> > or similar used for carrying away superflous liquid like rain water or
> > industrial discharge without letting it soak into the ground. Consider
> > using waterway=ditch for unlined channels used to drain nearby wet land.
> > Consider using waterway=canal for large unlined land drainage channels.
> > ditch - Small artificial free flow waterways used for irrigating dry land
> > or draining wet land. Irrigation ditches can be lined or unlined, drainage
> > ditches are usually unlined to let water soak through the land into them.
> > Ditches may have short lined segments at waterway turning points or
> > intersections with roads or paths to prevent erosion. Consider using
> > waterway=canal for large irrigation or land drainage channels. Consider
> > using waterway=drain for usually lined superflous liquid drainage channels.
> > Cheers,
> > Eugene
> > вт, 29 янв. 2019 г. в 18:32, marc marc marc_marc_irc at hotmail.com:
> >
> > > Le 29.01.19 à 16:13, Eugene Podshivalov a écrit :
> > >
> > > > How to we proceed with this topic? Should a proposal be created or the
> > > > wiki pages can be updated straight away by someone or myself based on
> > > > this discussion?
> > >
> > > maybe it's a good idea to write a small-summary-only post
> > > to check if there is a consensus on this, because there are probably
> > > many participants who have dropped out given the number of emails that
> > > the subject has generated
> > >
> > > Tagging mailing list
> > > Tagging at openstreetmap.org
> > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
> >
> > Tagging mailing list
> > Tagging at openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>
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> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2019 13:15:41 +0300
> From: Eugene Podshivalov yaugenka at gmail.com
> To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"
> tagging at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Tagging] Drain vs ditch
> Message-ID:
> CAEPw1JVpHMDQSzYtGp0TghhR7_cW1Quq9yUv5ocvgdNmnTaHsg at mail.gmail.com
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> ср, 30 янв. 2019 г. в 13:02, Warin 61sundowner at gmail.com:
>
> > Large means?
> > Small means?
> > To me I'd use small = I can step over it, large means I cannot step over
> > it .. so ~1.1 metres is the line between the two.
>
> Drains and ditches can be 0.1 to 5 metres wide. You can hardly step over a
> 2-5 metre wide ditch, can you? Anything greater than that can be called a
> canal.
> So I would leave this up to the user to decide on.
>
> Cheers,
> Eugene





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