[Tagging] Navaid relation?

Florian Lohoff f at zz.de
Wed May 22 07:53:09 UTC 2019


Hi Marc,

On Tue, May 21, 2019 at 10:38:23PM +0000, marc marc wrote:
> > What is the expectation to get navigated to when selecting a park?
> 
> there is no such thing as "a single point that makes everyone agree"

Yes there is - there has to be an explicit location you will ne navigated
to for a certain feature. 

It might be that there are multiple - then you might want to choose.
Currently you'll be guided to a random location which fits whatever
nearest point algorithm your router/navigation uses. Non deterministic
from a users perspective.

> take the case of a square park fenced by a fence, surrounded by 4 
> streets each with a pedestrian entrance to the park.
> those arriving from the north will probably want to stop at the street 
> to the north, while those arriving from the south will probably want to 
> stop at the street at the south entrance.

Tell me ONE application that does this. None. All of them map a feature
you select (Address, POI, whatever) - map it to a single precise point
and bring you there.

> > Doesnt work - You are navigating by car but you only have a footway up
> > to hour house - Still the house is near road b - thus you get navigated
> > to the wrong street.
> 
> that's a bug/a feature needed in the routing, all info exist in osm
> to find the path to reatch to the house, instead of leaving you at
> a closer location but whose routing to the house is unknown

Nope - there isnt enough information. Its all just implicit and works
for 95% of the cases. It breaks horrible in others and we fake
geometries to fix it, blame the application, invent tags to guide the
nav/routing which only fit half of the object and only half of the
apps support. In all cases the user is in trouble.

> > Detaching addresses from house geometries putting it near the road 
> > i expect people to be navigated to.
> 
> so UGLY ! You decide, for the example of the park, that everyone
> must use YOUR favorite entrance.

No - i expect to select a feature and when there are multiple entrances
i expect the Nav to ask me. Currently it doesnt - no application does.
They simply guide me to some arbitrarily choosen point calculated
from some geomtry which fits some nearest point matching algorithm. And
there is NO way to fix this.

> it is tagging for your-routing, instead of allowing routing to have 
> personalized options (shortest route, least walking, close to a parking, 
> disabled accessible up to the poi)

No - as i said - its about hinting. We have a low percentage of
nav targets which are not or suboptimally reached with current
alhorithms. Its about a navaid hint to help algorithms choose
the right and optimal destination point for a certain object and mode
of transportation.

If its foot and you have a footway to the entrance - Its the entrance.
If there is an explicit car park than its that for the car. If its
by bus you can select the bus stop (in which case you switch mode of
transportation and have your next destination from the navaid relation)

Flo
-- 
Florian Lohoff                                                 f at zz.de
        UTF-8 Test: The 🐈 ran after a 🐁, but the 🐁 ran away
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