[Tagging] Ahkwesáhsne, a territory of the Kanien'kehá:ka Nation of the Haudenosaunee Confederacy Was:Should admin_level=1 tag be applied to EU?

Clifford Snow clifford at snowandsnow.us
Sat Aug 1 18:23:59 UTC 2020


After some digging, it appears that Saint Regis Mohawk Indian Territory is
in OSM. Just across the border, on a Saint Lawrence River island, is the
Akwesasne 59 First Nations tribe is also in OSM. According to Wikipedia [1]
the Mohawk consider their territory to be a single nation, with no border
separating its parts.

It seems to me that we should map the tribal areas as one. Possibly as a
super relation, though I'm not sure if super relations are used for
boundaries. What I find interesting is that the Canadian Border Crossing is
located on the North side of the Saint Lawrence River while the US crossing
station is located on the South side of the river. It seems to imply that
the Akwesasne Nation is not in either country.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Regis_Mohawk_Reservation

Clifford

On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 8:15 PM Paul Johnson <baloo at ursamundi.org> wrote:

> I do not, which was a big problem with that.  I like mapping
> weird boundaries like that, so I tried to take it on, but it seems there's
> somewhat conflicting information between the tribe, US and Canada on this.
> I strongly suspect we're going to need to find an Ahkwesáhsnean that knows
> the boundaries well to get a solid cut on this and I'm not entirely sure
> how to reach out.
>
> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:52 PM Clifford Snow <clifford at snowandsnow.us>
> wrote:
>
>> Paul,
>> Do you have any website or contact info for the tribe? There are a number
>> of websites but not sure exactly which one. Although it be nice to get them
>> all added.
>>
>> Clifford
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 7:17 PM Paul Johnson <baloo at ursamundi.org> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 6:59 PM Clifford Snow <clifford at snowandsnow.us>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 11:54 AM Kevin Kenny <kevin.b.kenny at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The nearest problem case to me is Ahkwesáhsne, a territory of
>>>>> the Kanien'kehá:ka Nation of the Haudenosaunee Confederacy that straddles
>>>>> the US-Canadian border, and whose government is recognized by neither
>>>>> state. The political situation there has deteriorated into shootings as
>>>>> recently as 1990, and sabre-rattling among US, Canadian and Akwesáhsro:non
>>>>> persons as recently as 2009. The disputes usually stem from one or the
>>>>> other large nation deciding to deny the Kanien'kehá free pratique to travel
>>>>> and trade within their own nation, requiring customs and imposts every time
>>>>> the US-Canadian border is crossed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Kevin,
>>>> Has this disputed territory been map in OSM? I went looking for it but
>>>> struck out. Just the name Ahkwesáhsne returned zero results.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I attempted to do so but was not able to proceed because of conflicting
>>> information relying on dubious sources.
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>>
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>> @osm_washington
>> www.snowandsnow.us
>> OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
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OpenStreetMap: Maps with a human touch
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