[Tagging] tourism=caravan_site versus tourism=camp_site: camping with a tent

Mateusz Konieczny matkoniecz at tutanota.com
Fri Aug 14 20:07:09 UTC 2020




Aug 14, 2020, 20:49 by hidde at hiddewieringa.nl:

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> My goal is to differentiate the two tags. Both tags allow tents,      and both allow camper vans and caravans. Both tags may or may not      provide facilities such as toilets, water, electricity, et cetera.      In practice, the only thing that differentiates a pitch for a tent      versus a pitch for a caravan or camper van, is the ground      underneath
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Not only. There is also a question of access, there are places where caravans would be unable to
reach and/or it would be illegal. Such as mountaintop or place in a protected area restricting 
vehicle traffic.

>  (tents require some sort of soft material like grass).      This differentiating property is not mentioned at all in the Wiki.
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Feel free to mention it!

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> - The tag tents=yes/no (only listed in the camp_site Wiki) would      be a good way to find a place to camp with a tent, but almost none      of the caravan_site have this tag. All camp_sites in OSM I have      camped on, allowed tents.
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It seems to me like tag worth adding - you can start mapping it, mention on caravan site on wiki
and maybe suggest support in various editors (if not rejected already and fitting)

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>  -- I noticed that both of the tags have status 'de facto', and no      proposals have been made for the definition of said tags. 
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This is typical for many OSM tags.

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> I ran a quick Overpass query for a small number of caravan sites      (~15) [3].
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This is a very valuable method for exploring how tagging is used in practice.

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>  Some of them note on their website that camping with a      tent is possible, and the surface of the pitches seems to be      grass. I am wondering if these should be re-tagged as camp_site,      or if I am missing something.
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> My opinion would be that a camp_site should allow staying      overnight with many types of vehicles/tents, indicated by the tags      listed clearly on the wiki of camp_site. A caravan_site would      allow staying overnight with vehicles only, and not allow camping      with a tent. 
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I think that something with space for 200 caravans and 2 tents would be well tagged as caravan_site.
Similarly, objects where tents are allowed only if there is plenty of free space.

> Concretely the sentence "They may also have some      space for tents." on [4] is the problem. Replacing the sentence on      the wiki with "Camping with a tent is not possible." would remove      any ambiguity differentiating these tags.
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The problem is that wiki edit will not magically resurvey all of them. With such de facto tags
it is typically too late to redefine them and OSM Wiki documents actual use.

> Any comments are welcome. I am willing to update the wiki or      draft a proposal for differentiating these two tags, if necessary.
>
Thanks for posting to this list to discuss it!

I think that better way to handle this may be promotion of tag for marking
"are tents allowed here".

Maybe it is something that should be added as field to editors for relevant object?
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