[Tagging] tourism=caravan_site versus tourism=camp_site: camping with a tent

Warin 61sundowner at gmail.com
Sun Aug 16 06:16:49 UTC 2020

On 15/8/20 4:49 am, Hidde Wieringa wrote:
> Good day,
> I am having trouble with the tourism tags caravan_site and camp_site, 
> specifically for the use case of finding a place to camp with a tent 
> (so not a caravan or a camper van).
> My goal is to differentiate the two tags. Both tags allow tents, and 
> both allow camper vans and caravans. Both tags may or may not provide 
> facilities such as toilets, water, electricity, et cetera. In 
> practice, the only thing that differentiates a pitch for a tent versus 
> a pitch for a caravan or camper van, is the ground underneath (tents 
> require some sort of soft material like grass). This differentiating 
> property is not mentioned at all in the Wiki.
> - The tag tents=yes/no (only listed in the camp_site Wiki) would be a 
> good way to find a place to camp with a tent, but almost none of the 
> caravan_site have this tag. All camp_sites in OSM I have camped on, 
> allowed tents.
> - Some of the caravan_site have been tagged with amenity=parking or 
> even surface=asphalt and this would mean that camping with a tent is 
> definitely not possible.
> - I noticed that both of the tags have status 'de facto', and no 
> proposals have been made for the definition of said tags. I found an 
> abandoned proposal [1] that has a good discussion about camping [2].
> - Some camp_sites have a 'nested' polygon with a caravan_site. This 
> seems logical, and the caravan_site can be ignored, and the camp_site 
> can be used for camping with a tent.
> Statistics from TagInfo: camp_site has ~100,000 uses, and caravan_site 
> has ~30,000 uses.
> I ran a quick Overpass query for a small number of caravan sites (~15) 
> [3]. Some of them note on their website that camping with a tent is 
> possible, and the surface of the pitches seems to be grass. I am 
> wondering if these should be re-tagged as camp_site, or if I am 
> missing something.
> My opinion would be that a camp_site should allow staying overnight 
> with many types of vehicles/tents, indicated by the tags listed 
> clearly on the wiki of camp_site. A caravan_site would allow staying 
> overnight with vehicles only, and not allow camping with a tent. 
> Concretely the sentence "They may also have some space for tents." on 
> [4] is the problem. Replacing the sentence on the wiki with "Camping 
> with a tent is not possible." would remove any ambiguity 
> differentiating these tags.
> Any comments are welcome. I am willing to update the wiki or draft a 
> proposal for differentiating these two tags, if necessary.
> Kind regards,
> /Hidde Wieringa/
> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Extend_camp_site
> [2] 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Extend_camp_site#caravan_site_separated.3F 
> [3] https://tyrasd.github.io/overpass-turbo 
> <https://tyrasd.github.io/overpass-turbo/?q=LyoKVGhpcyBoYcSGYmVlbiBnxI1lcmF0ZWQgYnkgdGhlIG92xJJwxIlzLXR1cmJvIHdpemFyZC7EgsSdxJ9yaWdpbmFsIHNlxLBjaMSsxIk6CsOiwoDCnHRvxKjEhW09Y8SwYXZhbl9zacSVIMWVxJfElW50cz1ub8WIwp0KKi8KW8WMdDpqc29uXVt0aW1lxaw6MjVdOwovL8SPxJTEnXIgcmVzdWzFoAooCiAgxoAgcXXEksSaxKNydCBmb3I6IMWIxYrFjMS3c8WPxZHEk8WUxZbFmMWaxZzEm8SNxaDFosWkwoDFpsaQxaNkZVsixYvFjcalIj0ixqfFk8WVxZfFmWUixbMhxZ7FoF0oe3tixKp4fX0pxb7GkHdheca5xrvGpG3GvseAxZLGqceExJXHh1vHicavc8eMx47HkG_HkseUx5bGhmVsxJRpxbHHm8ajxY7Hn8eBx6LGq8eGx4jHisepx43Hj8eRx5PHlQrIhsaScMS3xZ_HscaJxotzCsWsxJhvZHnFvj7FvsiSc2vHssaTdDs&c=BNxUhr7BxL&>
> [4] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tourism%3Dcaravan_site

The web site https://opencampingmap.org/#10/48.6100/8.2400/0/1/bef is an 
attempt to encourage mapping of camp and caravan site attributes...

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