[Tagging] Rail segment in a bike route

Peter Elderson pelderson at gmail.com
Sun Aug 30 17:51:20 UTC 2020


Route hierarchy is regular practice.The parent relation holds child
relations. This is the case for many types of route,

As far as I can see, there are two new elements:

1. A child relation (route section) can be of a different route type.
2. Provided it has a special role

Since the type is in the child relation, you don't need to specify that in
the role.

This is valid for many route types. I would suggest not to present it as a
complex bicycle route, but as a way to incorporate transfer sections of
different types in routes of any transport type.

Best, Peter Elderson


Op zo 30 aug. 2020 om 17:52 schreef Jo <winfixit at gmail.com>:

> Hi Francesco,
>
> I started a proposal on the wiki:
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/More_complex_cycle_routes
>
> It will probably need to be moved to the proposal name space, but we can
> work on it over there before putting it up for a vote.
>
> Jo
>
> On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 3:09 PM Francesco Ansanelli <francians at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I saw your changes... LGTM.
>> Thanks!
>> It would be great to have a page to document your proposal.
>> Cheers
>> Francesco
>>
>> Il dom 30 ago 2020, 12:03 Jo <winfixit at gmail.com> ha scritto:
>>
>>> Hi Francesco,
>>>
>>> I will create the superroute and route relations as an example. If you
>>> don't like the solution, feel free to remove those relations again
>>> afterwards. I will only fix a small error in the original relation, but
>>> keep it for now, so both solutions can be analysed next to each other.
>>>
>>> I don't really like the idea of a role 'transfer' on all those railway
>>> ways in a single route relation. In the case of your example, there is only
>>> a single railway, but in theory there could be one for each direction of
>>> travel of the train. So if you want to describe that in the route relation,
>>> you would need role forward/backward in the route relation, which cannot be
>>> combined with role transfer.
>>>
>>> Jo
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 11:24 AM Francesco Ansanelli <
>>> francians at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Polyglot,
>>>>
>>>> it sounds good to me. But what roles do you suggest for such superroute?
>>>> Many thanks
>>>> Francesco
>>>>
>>>> Il giorno dom 30 ago 2020 alle ore 11:00 Jo <winfixit at gmail.com> ha
>>>> scritto:
>>>>
>>>>> How would you feel about mapping it with a superroute relation?
>>>>>
>>>>> The superroute would then contain 3 route relations.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1 for the first part by bicycle
>>>>> 1 for the middle part by train
>>>>> 1 for the last part by bicycle
>>>>>
>>>>> If we give the train part a different role in the superroute, we can
>>>>> make it such that the continuity line in JOSM is still drawn.
>>>>>
>>>>> This solution might also work to indicate that certain parts of a
>>>>> bicycle route need to be done on foot. Although creating separate route
>>>>> relations for such short stretches may feel like overkill.
>>>>>
>>>>> The other 'interruption' of a bicycle route I can think of, is where a
>>>>> ferry needs to be taken. In theory this could also be a funicular. In
>>>>> Antwerpen there is a special bus service that takes cyclists through a
>>>>> tunnel under river Schelde (for commuters, where a ferry was abolished,
>>>>> it's unlikely we'll create a route relation for this, but not
>>>>> impossible/unthinkable).
>>>>>
>>>>> In JOSM PT_Assistant there will soon be a convenience button to
>>>>> extract route relations from route or superroute relations, to make a
>>>>> conversion from route to superroute+route relations easier to do.
>>>>>
>>>>> Polyglot
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 9:59 AM Francesco Ansanelli <
>>>>> francians at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a new example that could benefit of this proposal:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/10605853
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Can someone please go ahead and make a proposal?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Many thanks
>>>>>> Best regards
>>>>>> Francesco
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Il mer 24 giu 2020, 23:25 Peter Elderson <pelderson at gmail.com> ha
>>>>>> scritto:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> For the record, I think a transfer role is a generic solution
>>>>>>> for the issue raised here, applicable to the cable car transfer and other
>>>>>>> types of transfer in routes, but I will not propose a new role value any
>>>>>>> time soon.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyone who wants to do it has my support, though.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Vr gr Peter Elderson
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Op za 20 jun. 2020 om 09:13 schreef Martin Koppenhoefer <
>>>>>>> dieterdreist at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> sent from a phone
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> > On 20. Jun 2020, at 01:58, Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Normal OSM access is assumed to be access=yes, where some access
>>>>>>>> is restricted then in OSM it should be marked *=no.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> for roads access=yes is assumed, it is not necessarily the default
>>>>>>>> for all kind of features.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cheers Martin
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