[Tagging] Power Storage Proposal (RFC)

Tue Dec 29 13:34:54 UTC 2020

To sum up at what point I am with my thoughts right now:
	* we could have a power=energy_storage tag that builds the foundation for all storage devices and facilities
	* we could have a energy_storage=facility (for whole facilities dedicated solely to storing energy like Honrsdale Power Reserve) or energy_storage=module for individual storage units (for example the containers with the batteries at Hornsdale or within a power=plant that also has storage)
	* than have the different methods of storage. Not exactly sure how we would name these tags
	*  Wikipedia has methods as the highest level (electrochemical/thermal/....) We might not necessarily need these
	* next level down comes type (which would be magnetic/capacitor for electrical or flywheel/gravitational/compressed air for mechanical)
	* and one level down would be sub types (like lithium-ion/lead/liquid-salt/.... for batteries)
	* storage capacity would be tagged as storage:capacity= xxx kWh/MWh
	The one issue I have is that you can easily tag the storage capacity for a combined generation and storage plant but you can't tag the method of storage. For Example if I have Kraftwerk Fenne (https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/24599434 (https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/24599434)) which would be power=plant with individual power=storage modules for the battery storage (https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/24599434. (https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/24599434)
For a data consumer to know how the power plant stores it's energy, they would have to find the tagged storage modules within the facility. Which also is a problem for mappers that might not know where the energy storage is located but know the power plant uses this or this kind of storage.

29. Dezember 2020 14:08, "Christian Pietzsch" <christian.pietzsch at piespace.de (mailto:christian.pietzsch at piespace.de?to=%22Christian%20Pietzsch%22%20<christian.pietzsch at piespace.de>)> schrieb:
	I think this would add too many tags under power=* making it very hard to find the right tags

	My opinion is that we need to put them into a category like we do with generators and plants. If we wouldn't have done that with generators we would have lots of different power=wind_turbine/solar_photovolatic panel/fusion_reactor/fission_reactor/.......

	I think power=storage or power=energy_storage would be good. Than have all different methods of storing energy below this level.

29. Dezember 2020 13:22, "François Lacombe" <fl.infosreseaux at gmail.com (mailto:fl.infosreseaux at gmail.com?to=%22Fran%C3%A7ois%20Lacombe%22%20<fl.infosreseaux at gmail.com>)> schrieb: 
OSM power key use to get values defined by IEC 60050 standard.
http://www.electropedia.org/ (http://www.electropedia.org/)

A battery is defined by 482-01-04 as a set of cells.
http://www.electropedia.org/iev/iev.nsf/display?openform&ievref=482-01-04 (http://www.electropedia.org/iev/iev.nsf/display?openform&ievref=482-01-04)

A cell is a assembly of component allowing to get electricity from chemical energy, defined by 482-01-01
http://www.electropedia.org/iev/iev.nsf/display?openform&ievref=482-01-01 (http://www.electropedia.org/iev/iev.nsf/display?openform&ievref=482-01-01)

A generator is defined by 151-13-35 as a device converting non-electric energy into electricity.
http://www.electropedia.org/iev/iev.nsf/display?openform&ievref=151-13-35 (http://www.electropedia.org/iev/iev.nsf/display?openform&ievref=151-13-35)

Then a battery would actually be a particular generator, as chemical energy isn't electrical energy.
Flywheels, compressed air systems aren't batteries, for instance.
I didn't understood it that way at first glance.

However, If we come to define power=battery in OSM, it should be exclusively related to chemical assemblies.
That doesn't prevent to have other power=* values that relate to mechanical or kinematical devices.
As electricity can't be stored, storage always occurs in a non-electric form and then involve only power generators.
Nevertheless, it's a property of both plants and generators then defining storage=* or power_storage=* would be more than welcome.

All the best

François
Le mar. 29 déc. 2020 à 11:34, Lukas Richert <lrichert at posteo.de (mailto:lrichert at posteo.de)> a écrit :
	There are batteries or rather energy storage devices based on gravitational, mechanical or kinematical approaches such as flywheels, compressed_air etc. The question is how broadly we would define battery I think? It could either be broadly defined as any device storing energy or as "devices containing an electric cell or a series of electric cells storing chemical energy that can be converted into electrical power". Perhaps a boader power=energy_storage would be more suitable?
On 29.12.20 10:49, Warin wrote:
On 29/12/20 8:23 pm, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote:

	sent from a phone

	On 29. Dec 2020, at 10:16, François Lacombe <fl.infosreseaux at gmail.com> (mailto:fl.infosreseaux at gmail.com) wrote: I'm not happy with things like generator:storage:type=lithium-ion and would really prefer power=battery + battery=lithium-ion + storage=electrochemical

	are there also batteries that aren’t based on electrochemical principles?

	?? I think they are all chemical.

	I would believe we could somehow combine the tags storage=electrochemical and power=battery into one tag, possibly by simply omitting one of them?

	There are a few ideas around, lets see if there are any more before reducing the options?

	_______________________________________________ Tagging mailing list Tagging at openstreetmap.org (mailto:Tagging at openstreetmap.org) https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging (https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging)_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
Tagging at openstreetmap.org (mailto:Tagging at openstreetmap.org)
https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging (https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging)
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/tagging/attachments/20201229/0b241f3b/attachment-0001.htm>