[Tagging] Power Storage Proposal (RFC)

[François Lacombe]

Please consider "As a capability among others, it should *not* get a
dedicated value on power=* but on a side key=*." on my previous mail

Sorry for noise

François

Le mer. 30 déc. 2020 à 16:35, François Lacombe <fl.infosreseaux at gmail.com>
a écrit :

> Hi Paul
>
> Le mer. 30 déc. 2020 à 15:41, Paul Allen <pla16021 at gmail.com> a écrit :
>
>> Are you sure that professionals within the industry regard batteries as
>> generators or is this the result of a strict parsing of the IEC definition
>> to give a result that was not intended?
>>
>
> At first it is a strict reading of IEC definitions
> IEC people had discussions and spent time I'm not competent to question as
> well.
>
> I had a look at how French TSO considers batteries integration in the grid
> and there are times they clearly describe them as power source, like
> mechanical generators.
>
>
>> Looking at the IEC definitions of cells, batteries, etc. I didn't
>> see anything that obviously classed them as a category of
>> generator.  They appeared to be distinct from generators.
>>
>
> IEC 482-01-01 battery cell "basic functional unit [...] that is a source
> of electric energy obtained by direct conversion of chemical energy"
> IEC 151-13-35 generator "energy transducer that transforms non-electric
> energy into electric energy"
> chemical energy is non-electric energy here
>
> As said before, no problem to define power=battery for chemical cells
> only. However no one brought solutions to deal with many other
> storage-capable devices.
> power=generator sounds to be the best candidate here, as soon as we agree
> to deal with storage as a capability, not as a device name.
>
> Le mer. 30 déc. 2020 à 15:53, Christian Pietzsch <
> christian.pietzsch at piespace.de> a écrit :
>
>>
>> Do you have any example where primary (non-rechargable) cells are used in
>> the grid?
>
> I think all storage we are talking about for OSM is either connected to a
>> nationwide or local grid and serves as a buffer. I can't come up with an
>> application where they would power a grid with primary cells.
>>
>
> OSM community also deals with autonomous and disconnected infrastructures.
> You'll actually find households or distant monitoring stations fed by
> primary cells people are in charge to periodically replace.
>
>
>> That's one of the things that I found most complicated.They are kind of
>> an energy storage at least they are considered as such by most. But only in
>> combination with a power generator burning the fuels again, they actually
>> become one that serve the electricity gird. I guess you could tag them as
>> storage, if they are an enclosed facility producing, storing and burning
>> powert-2-gas. Probably doesn't make sense for individual electrolysers.
>> So the question is how we would tag the electorlyser part within such a
>> facility.
>>
>
> Same question applies on nuclear power plants where you find 3 different
> actual generators, producing intermediate power.
> That problem will remain complicated unless you consider storage as a
> capability of power generators.
> As a capability among others, it should get a dedicated value on power=*
> but on a side key=*.
>
> Regarding vector production like hydrogen, electrolyzer shouldn't get any
> storage capability, only fuel cell consuming part of that hydrogen should.
> Same applies on fuel tanks. Refineries won't have any electricity storage
> capability, only fuel power plant consuming refined fuel will, won't you?
>
>
>> > Then "type" isn't useful. It often (not to mention always) doesn't
>> bring additional information as
>> > anything is a type or category of something in OSM.
>> > storage=battery is as meaningful as storage:type=battery
>>
>> I agree with you. storage=battery could be sufficient. I chose
>> storage:type because it was closer to the way we tag generators and plants.
>> I'd like to hear other peoples opinions on that as well.
>
>
> As a contributor of generator:type establishment I could say now it's a
> mistake and I won't propose any :type key again.
>
>
> All the best
>
> François
>
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