[Tagging] [OSM-talk] Should we map things that do not exist?

[Joseph Eisenberg]

Re: "the traces of rail ballast in the soil, the signs of deteriorated
embankments, cuttings and ditches, and so on all are clear signposts"

Yes, it's fine to map an abandoned railway in that case.

However, I don't think they should be in the database when the right-of-way
has been completely re-graded and the land has been re-developed, with new
streets and buildings, totally eliminating the old features.

E.g.: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/13375829/#map=19/33.78089/-118.15134
- this is miss-tagged as an abandoned railway in this segment.

-- Joseph Eisenberg

On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 11:27 AM Kevin Kenny <kevin.b.kenny at gmail.com>
wrote:

> On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 1:34 PM stevea <steveaOSM at softworkers.com> wrote:
>
>> Thank you, although I think you are agreeing with Volker, the OP, rather
>> than me, who replied.  (Volker and I agree).  To be clear, there are no
>> "replacements" (existing or proposed) for railway=abandoned (or similar
>> values), there are simply the tags we have already defined, documented and
>> data so tagged which are already in the map.  They belong, they should
>> stay, they can and should continue to be entered where they exist (as a
>> right-of-way, especially when proposed to be included in a "rail-trail").
>>
>
> I've certainly hiked on demolished logging railways (and other abandoned
> rights-of-way) where the roads were closed, the rails lifted, and so on
> prior to the First World War.  A lot of people would say that 'no traces
> remain', but to an experienced bushwhacker, the traces of rail ballast in
> the soil, the signs of deteriorated embankments, cuttings and ditches, and
> so on all are clear signposts. Sometimes the ground displays a distinct
> corduroy texture where the sleepers have long since crumbled to rot and
> dust, but the mounded ballast between them supports the soil. There may be
> spilt coal or clinker, or other bits of rubbish about. (One of them
> has rather a lot of broken whiskey bottles!) I'd not dignify the things
> with 'abandoned' - they've deteriorated further than that, and an effort
> was made to demolish them. I'd not call them 'footway', either, since it's
> not prudent to hike them without sound orienteering skills. The ways are
> lost in spots owing to mudslides, washouts, overgrowth and the like. The
> published maps of the area usually bear warnings like "unmarked trails and
> abandoned roads in this area may be obscure and difficult to follow, even
> for experienced hikers."
>
> They still provide graded routes that a hiker can follow part of the way
> to some off-trail destinations. But they're nothing more nor less than
> demolished railways. Nothing new has been put in their place, but the
> railways are long gone. Their traces are there for eyes to see that can.
>
> --
> 73 de ke9tv/2, Kevin
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