[Tagging] Tagging Free Water for cafés, bars, restaurant

European Water Project europeanwaterproject at gmail.com
Mon Jan 13 20:23:45 UTC 2020


>
>
> Thanks Hauke

The namespace scheme could work. It is very elegant and clean. The meaning
of customer in container is a bit confusing... as it can be a paying or non
paying customer.

I could see :
free_water = <anyone,must_consume>
free_water:container =<own,establishment>
free_water:table=<yes/no>

How long does it typically take for the tag allocation decision process to
be completed?  Do you have an example wiki proposal page ?

Best regards,

Stuart



>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 19:57:02 +0100
> From: Hauke Stieler <mail at hauke-stieler.de>
> To: tagging at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Tagging]  Tagging Free Water for cafés, bars,
>         restaurant
> Message-ID: <b247e31a-8523-a49b-0a9e-cd9a7f731cca at hauke-stieler.de>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Stuart,
>
> > The proposal below does not seem optimal, but if that is what is decided
> > we will write wiki instructions in this manner.
> No decisions have been made so far. Currently all these mails just
> contain ideas and discussions.
>
> I'm personally a fan of the namespace scheme, the one with the ":"
> separating parts of a tag. You'll find this e.g. on addresses:
>
>         addr:street=*
>         addr:city=*
>         addr:housenumber=*
>         ...
>
> Or also for parking situations:
>
>         parking:lane=*
>         parking:lane:left=*
>         parking:condition=*
>         ...
>
> This semantic separation of a key creates a nice structure and organizes
> this huge collection of possible tags into groups.
>
> > I still prefer free_water_refill=yes/no  free_water_table=yes/no
> Because the beginning of these two tags are the same, for me personally
> it's a reason to change them into "free_water:..." tags.
>
> Using this scheme, I can also imagine the following tags (just ideas,
> the keys and values are probably not optimal):
>
> free_water=<yes/no/customers>
> free_water:container=<customer/supplier/both>
> free_water:table=<yes/no>
> (maybe more...)
>
> However, in the end, there must probably be a tag proposal (a wiki page
> describing how the final tags should look like, what they exactly mean,
> when to use them, what use-cases do they have, etc.). Everybody can vote
> for or against the proposal, therefore it's in the end on the community
> to decide what tags become "official".
>
> Hauke
>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 20:01:56 +0100
> From: European Water Project <europeanwaterproject at gmail.com>
> To: tagging at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Tagging]  Tagging Free Water for cafés, bars, (Martin
>         Koppenhoefer)
> Message-ID:
>         <CAK=tSVf_Da=AT=
> gEK8N0UsxA_VbaUrryqQwVv9F6EMejdU1UYw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> >
> >    2. Re:  Tagging Free Water for cafés, bars, (Martin Koppenhoefer)
> >
> >>>>> Martin, Italy is amazing. Apparently there are more than 100,000
> fountains in Italy. On the 24th of April, we are planning a fountain hunt
> in Rome with the My-D.org. We should be 20 people including locals (just in
> case you live there).
> re: amenity=drinking_water
> France is complicated and the lobbies have made almost all perfectly good
> water fountains labelled "non potable". Just across the borders in
> Switzerland and Italy all the fountains are good to drink......
>
> Price can be an incentive, but unless the waste producer pays all true
> indirect externalities the cost will always be minimal for PET.
>
>
> > 3. Re:  Tagging Free Water for cafés,  bars, (Philip Barnes)
> >
>
> >>>>>>>Philip, Yes, like the US and France. We believe that it should be
> that way everywhere. No one should have to create single-use waste to keep
> themselves hydrated.
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 17:50:20 +0100
> > From: Martin Koppenhoefer <dieterdreist at gmail.com>
> > To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"
> >         <tagging at openstreetmap.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Tagging]  Tagging Free Water for cafés, bars,
> > Message-ID:
> >         <
> > CABPTjTCLw2ikPrN1vAGBtc4x9zGuoToL0xCoxz5MpNC6G0-rOg at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Am Mo., 13. Jan. 2020 um 17:29 Uhr schrieb European Water Project <
> > europeanwaterproject at gmail.com>:
> >
> > > While I understand your point of view, many are trying hard to change
> > > legislation and might see it as more than a marketing gimmick but
> rather
> > a
> > > right to be able to drink without generating single-use waste. Belgium,
> > > Luxembourg,  Switzerland and Italy are not obliged to serve tap water
> > with
> > > a meal like in France where we live.
> > >
> >
> >
> > from a practical point of view, living in Italy, I have not yet
> encountered
> > a place that would have refused (free) tap water. Great thing about Italy
> > is that you can get free water in many places right on the street, from
> > drinking fountains 24/7. amenity=drinking_water is rank 5 on Italy's
> > taginfo stats, almost double the amount of petrol stations :)
> > https://taginfo.geofabrik.de/europe/italy/keys/amenity#values
> >
> > In France, drinking_water is amenity rank 23, so rightfully your
> government
> > has found other ways to provide you with water ;-)
> > https://taginfo.geofabrik.de/europe/france/keys/amenity#values
> >
> > Not to get me wrong, I do agree there is benefit from political action,
> and
> > there are issues related to water. What also matters is the actual price
> > you have to pay for (bottled) water. It will always be completely
> unrelated
> > to drinking water prices, but while in Italy a bottle of water is
> typically
> > 1 EUR (away from airports), or 2 EUR (in the restaurant, there are
> > exceptions), in Germany they will typically charge you 2,50 and more for
> > just a glass of water. In Switzerland, they sell water for 5 SFR a bottle
> > on the motorway, and 4 EUR and more is not unseen on German motorways as
> > well.
> >
> > Cheers
> > Martin
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> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 18:12:56 +0000
> > From: Philip Barnes <phil at trigpoint.me.uk>
> > To: tagging at openstreetmap.org
> > Subject: Re: [Tagging]  Tagging Free Water for cafés,  bars,
> > Message-ID:
> >         <ba9dbef6a392aaafac3f9c7fc86dcc6785ee2064.camel at trigpoint.me.uk>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > In GB it is the law that licensed premises provide free drinking water.
> >
> > So that , means all pubs, most restaurants and some cafes.
> >
> > Phil (trigpoint)
> >
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> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 13 Jan 2020 21:02:10 +0100
> From: Markus <selfishseahorse at gmail.com>
> To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"
>         <tagging at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [Tagging] amenity=tourist_bus_parking
> Message-ID:
>         <CAJJ-S94-nzLN9GmFq=
> w_WGVqprKyRqbOBbgap8gyLS2yXQ1esw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Hi John
>
> On Thu, 9 Jan 2020 at 22:37, John Willis via Tagging
> <tagging at openstreetmap.org> wrote:
> >
> > https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/36.31737/139.61884
> >
> > Here is a good example of the kind of situations I have in my area:
> >
> > - a service area with two different lots, car and HGV (bus/lorry)
> adjacent to each other, with a satellite bathroom for the busses.
> > - service area is segregated by motorway direction, and labeled as such.
> This makes duplicates of everything.  They are usually not adjacent, but
> are in this case.
> > - dedicated separated handicap parking
> > - separate “permissive” lots for people outside the toll system to park
> and enter on foot.
> > - loading zones for deliveries (untagged).
>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/758265853
>
> amenity=parking
> access=customers
> bus=designated
> hgv=designated
> motorcar=no
> parking=surface
> ref=🚛🚌
> surface=asphalt
>
> As amenity=parking currently is defined as a car park, data users
> would assume that this is a car park for customers (they likely don't
> evaluate motorcar=no).
>
> Even if amenity=parking weren't exclusive for cars, but for any
> vehicles, your tagging doesn't mean what you likely had in mind (i.e.
> a customer parking for buses and HGVs), but a designated parking
> facility for buses and HGVs (not only for customers) that other
> vehicles except cars (e.g. tourist buses or motorcycles) can use if
> they are customers.
>
> In order that data understand your example and before we've found a
> solution for parkings for multiple vehicle classes, i would recommend
> to tag it as follows:
>
> amenity=parking
> access=no
> bus=customers
> hgv=customers
>
> Regards
>
> Markus
>
>
>
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