[Tagging] Continuous Sidewalk or Cycleway

Florimond Berthoux florimond.berthoux at gmail.com
Sat Jan 25 16:26:48 UTC 2020

Le sam. 25 janv. 2020 à 15:19, Peter Elderson <pelderson at gmail.com> a
écrit :

> Florimond Berthoux <florimond.berthoux at gmail.com>:
>> With a table the pedestrians have to cross the road, it is the opposite
>> for the continuous sidewalk that's why I'm in favor to add a new value
> traffic_calming=continuous_sidewalk
> Well, any crossing involves different ways crossing each other, and should
> be considered from all angles involved. A way can't cross another way
> without being crossed itself.

Crossing key is defined as such «This tag is used for more accurately
describing specific types of pedestrian crossings across roads»
Continuous sidewalk is a sidewalk, so pedestrian don't cross a road but a
sidewalk, so crossing key cannot be applied.

> Give ways:
>> If there is traffic sign or painting you can add a give way tag.
>> If there is none, you cannot add a give way, or you would interpret the
>> law which is not on the ground.
>> Crossing:
>> I thought of using crossing key but there are issues:
>> - the tag is only for pedestrians crossing the road, where as a
>> continuous sidewalk is a sidewalk cross by cars (though we could change the
>> definition of crossing to embrace more situations)
> I would not even consider that a change: as said above,  a way can't cross
> another way without being crossed by the other way.
>> - continuous cycleways exist too (and it’s the main reason I’d like to
>> tag them)
> In Nederland, cycleways tend to be continuous by design, but that does not
> imply anything. All the regular traffic rules apply. Only continuous
> pedestrian surface (including elevation, pavement, lining) is significant.
> It is in effect a pedestrian area or living street, where other traffic is
> tolerated but has no rights. Also, traffic coming from an area like that
> has no priority whatsoever. Movements of vehicles on the pavement are
> considered "special manoeuvres" and the driver has to give way to all
> others.

Yes in Netherland you don't know what crossing a kurb every 50m on bicycle
means, but there is a difference of having the cycleway going down to join
the level of the road and crossing it than having the cycleway staying
higher than the road on a cycleway.
not continuous :
5m further continuous :

- it collides with continuous sidewalk, you may have continuous sidewalk
>> and a crossing, it’s not a normal case but I have at least one example in
>> Paris where zebras were added on a continuous sidewalk, hence the need for
>> another tag.
> This would just be extra lining to emphasize priority for pedestrians. It
> looks like a zebra but It would still be a "continuous_sidewalk" crossing.
> Calling it a zebra crossing while it is continuous sidewalk would send the
> wrong message.

No, I want to tag both features, I not here to interpret the world, the law
or else, I just want to say there is a continuous sidewalk with zebra on it.

> For the moment my concern is about would it be possible to have tag
>> collision with junction.
>> And I just realize that a cycleway can be a junction=roundabout, and
>> being continuous at the intersection with roads in and out of the
>> roundabout.
> That is very common around here for cycleways around a roundabout, but it
> doesn't mean anything unless traffic signs (stop signs, give_way signs or
> shark's teeth) are present. Pedestrian roundabouts, .i.e. continous sidwalk
> around a roundabout, I have never seen that, but if present, it would imply
> absolute priority for pedestrians and nothing for cyclists!
>> So I guess we have to create a key.
> I don't see how that follows from your arguments!
> A node on the way where it crosses the middle line of the continuous
> pavement (whether drawn as a way or not) tagged with either
> traffic_calming=continous_sidewalk or crossing=continuous_sidewalk) covers
> all cases mentioned, I think. Just an extra value.
> I think that would be enough for basic rendering, routing and
> traffic-oriented maps.

You'll not be able to tag a roundabout on the ways of a cycleway
(junction=roundabout) and tag on the way of the continuous cycleway
(junction=continuous_sidewalk) since it already have junction=roundabout,
two feature on the same tag -> collision.

Florimond Berthoux
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