[Tagging] addr:street for routes

Jmapb jmapb at gmx.com
Fri Jul 31 19:44:13 UTC 2020

On 7/31/2020 1:00 PM, Paul Johnson wrote:
> I'd go with the official address.  It's not rare to find addresses in
> the US where what goes on an envelope doesn't match what the street is
> actually called. Nor is it rare to find the wiki to be wrong

Sometimes the official address is unclear. Example, the firehouse at
housenumber 58. The fire department website says "58 NY-214", the county
records list the parcel address as "58 Route 214" with "Route 214 PO Box
281" as the mailing address. The USPS website likes the address "58
State Route 214" which is what I put for now.

(As far as the wiki goes, of course there are problems. My hope is to
clarify this particular point and edit the wiki accordingly.)

On 7/31/2020 2:02 PM, Kevin Kenny wrote:
> .The `addr:street` should match what goes on the address label that a
> delivery driver will be reading.

With that goal in mind, we could say that an address should conform to
usps.com's formatting (preferably sans the all-caps and the zip+4.) In
this case, a spot check shows that to be "State Route 214". But are we
allowed, license-wise, to pull from usps.com?

(In real life of course, delivery companies will get parcels labeled
every which way, and will tend to parse them intelligently, knowing that
highway route names in street addresses are inconsistent.)

> That issue is the reason that I formerly advocated having the way
> carry the tag `name="State Route 214`" if the street has no other name
> and postal addresses use the reference.  I was convinced by many
> others here that the consensus is that the latter is poor practice,
> and that simply having the `addr:street` show a name that attaches to
> no way is correct.

And as you've acquiesced to this, so have I. But unfortunately it
doesn't seem to work for search. For the firehouse, Nominatum will
return results (not perfect but close) for 58 NY 214 and 58 NY-214 but
none of the other variations, including the currently tagged USPS-valid
address of "58 State Route 214.

> I think that duplicating the ref `CR 23C` or `NY 214` literally in the
> `addr:name` is a less-than-optimal practice
I don't love it either. It would be more appropriate in an
`addr:route_ref` key, but I imagine it would be pretty confusing for
most mappers to have to choose between that and `addr:street`.
> I strongly prefer having the name spelt out, and possibly including
> the authority:  `New York State Route 214` or `Greene County Route
> 23C`.  Note that the word 'Route' is appropriate for both of these;
> New York doesn't have roads formally named 'State Highway' or 'County
> Road' - both are 'Routes' in the official documentation.

So this is yet another version of the street name I didn't mention! And
I'd have no problem making this the standard, but I *would* like to be
able to standardize... maybe not nationally, maybe not even state-wide,
but at least per route.

> One reason for spelling out everything is that these fields often wind
> up in voice-synthesis software, and it's much easier to deal with
> spelt-out words than obscure abbreviations. To this day, when I go to
> Schoharie, OSMand will direct me onto 'Enn Wye Thirty Amperes toward
> Shah-ha-ree' because Android's voice synthesis lacks a pronunciation
> for 'Schoharie' and the context for 'NY 30A'. (I've also heard highway
> numbers read out as 'Enn Wye Nine Newtons', 'You Ess Nine Watts', 'See
> Are Twenty-Three Coulombs', and so on - apparently a letter following
> a string of digits is consistently interpreted as being the
> abbreviation of an SI unit.)
> Side note: We really ought to settle on name:pronunciation or some
> similar key, because otherwise there is No Flippin' Way that
> navigation software will ever realize that Schoharie is
> /skoʊˈheɪɹˌiː/, Valatie is /vəˈleɪ.ʃə/, or Cairo is /ˈkeɪɹ.oʊ/. You're
> an Upstater, so you know what I'm talking about! (For those who
> aren't, the voice of Salli on
> http://ipa-reader.xyz/?text=v%C9%99%CB%88le%C9%AA.%CA%83%C9%99 is
> pretty close to the local pronunciation, although her intonation isn't
> quite right on 'Schoharie'.)

That's pretty funny with the newtons & coulombs... It could be
alleviated with name:pronunciation, which isn't "approved" but is
formally documented and in use in a few thousand places. If you think
you've mastered the pronunciation of Schoharie, go ahead and tag it...
OSMand and Android will probably catch up in about 15 years.

On 7/31/2020 2:13 PM, Matthew Woehlke wrote:
> That sounds suspiciously like a solvable problem. (I mean, that the
> validation tools could be improved to handle this situation properly.)
As I mentioned above, I'm concerned less about validation tools and more
about search. Ideally they should be picking up the same sort of
problems, though.


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