[Tagging] Reviving the path discussion - the increasing importance of trails in OSM

[Kevin Kenny]

On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 9:11 PM Tod Fitch <tod at fitchfamily.org> wrote:
>
> Being a Sierra Club member in California, it seems to me that the Yosemite Decimal System (YDS) [1], originally created by the Sierra Club is made to order for this. Classes 1 through 3 are basically hiking, 4 is transitional and 5 is technical climbing. My understanding having been exposed to this for decades is slightly different from that in Wikipedia mine are:
>
> 1 - No special gear or equipment needed. If not the equivalent to a city sideway in difficulty, it is very close.
> 2 - Uneven, loose or other surfaces where good hiking shoes are advisable.
> 3 - You may occasionally need to use a hand to steady yourself in difficult areas.
> 4 - Climbing or scrambling but low exposure and/or low risk of injury such that safety equipment like ropes are not required.
> 5 - Climbing requiring technical skills and equipment.
>
> Class 5 was divided into 10 levels (thus a “decimal” system) but has been expanded to well more than 10 sub levels over the years as techniques and gear have evolved. But that is off topic when dealing with hiking trails. I think for most of what I’d map as a trail we are dealing with classes 1 through 3. In Kevin’s example system, the trail with a toddler would be a 1 and the other two examples would be either 3 or 4.

There are a couple of moves on the second trail that are a technical
difficulty of about 5.4, but the exposed stuff isn't that difficult
and the technical stuff isn't exposed - so class 4 is about right.
Except that the very existence of class 4 is controversial:
https://www.summitpost.org/class-four-is-a-myth-problems-in-yds/891794

The third trail is similar difficulty to the second in summer. At the
time that the picture was taken, I'd call it an M1 - there's a
different classification for-mixed-ice-and-rock. The guidebook says
that trail is hikable from mid-May to mid-October and we were climbing
in December in that pic. We switched a couple of times between
snowshoes and crampons, and brought out the ice axes at least once or
twice.

On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 9:05 PM Andrew Harvey <andrew.harvey4 at gmail.com> wrote:
>  https://youtu.be/VKsD1qBpVYc?t=533 I would tag as sac_scale=demanding_mountain_hiking, my rule of thumb is anything where the average person would need to use their hands to get over an obstacle is demanding_mountain_hiking. This is what the wiki says too "exposed sites may be secured with ropes or chains, possible need to use hands for balance".

That's how I'd scale it if I hadn't been scolded for over-grading it.
(The person who scolded me also argued that "need to use hands to get
ahead" for class 4 was a poor translation, and that it would better
read "need to take full body weight on hands".) I actually simply
accepted the scolding and 'forgot' to retag it, so it's still
demanding_mountain_hiking in OSM. One of the guidebooks reads. "the
rock is sound, holds are plentiful and route-finding is
straightforward. Nevertheless, the exposure is dramatic, and less
confident parties may wish to employ a rope" - which sounds like
textbook class-4 if such a thing exists.
-- 
73 de ke9tv/2, Kevin