[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - electricity=*

Lukas Richert lrichert at posteo.de
Tue Nov 3 00:07:37 UTC 2020

Hi Jan,

I would refrain from overwriting the power_supply tags. Firstly, 
speaking as  a native speaker, it is not an intuitive name. The first 
few times I saw this I immedialtey thought it wasn't relevant to what I 
was searching for and didn't even read the wiki. A power supply 
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_supply> is a device that supplies 
electric at a specific voltage, current etc. and is typically built into 
computers, used in labs etc. It does not specify the existence of 
electricity. (If anything, the word they meant to use is probably 
'electrical outlet'.)

Furthermore, the tagging is highly inconsistent. The way it is described 
on the wiki page has nothing to do with the way it is described on the 
camp_site page. I think the data would be better and more consistent if 
power_supply is deprecated and slowly replaced by either socket:* or 
electricity, depending on the meaning.

I think overwriting the meaning of a used tag is a dangerous method and 
taggers that are already using it wouldn't necessarily notice the change 
in definition. If the tag was deprecated, it would be obvious which 
definition the tagger was using instead of introducing a further 
variable into an already badly documented tag. Also, power_supply:socket 
would again be a duplication of the already existing, well-thought-out 
socket tag.

Cheers, Lukas

On 30/10/2020 15:17, Jan Michel wrote:
> Hi,
> I don't see a need to introduce new 'electricity:XY' keys.
> The current definition of 'electricity' is to mark how an
> amenity or building is supplied with energy. There is no intention
> to have this key mark things like access for other people to this
> energy source.
> Access to electricity is tagged using 'power_supply' - and all your 
> ideas would fit perfectly into the already existing
> 'power_supply' key. It seems to be the ideal occassion to revisit
> this tag and bring it to a good shape.
> Here's what I would do:
> - There is no formal proposal for power_supply yet, so we should write 
> one
> - The option to have socket types as values is listed in the Wiki, but 
> hardly ever used (93% of uses are plain yes/no), so this should be 
> dropped as its mixing different things into one tag.
> - Propose the new subtags according to your ideas, i.e.
>     power_supply -> adjust values to be yes/no/grid/generator ...
>     power_supply:socket -> values and meaning as in Key:socket
>     power_supply:source -> values and meaning as described for 
> power:source and generator:source
>     power_supply:fee -> already in use!
>     power_supply:access -> like in common tags like toilets:access
> Jan
> On 30.10.20 13:44, Lukas Richert wrote:
>> Since a lot of people apparently didnt see the RFC the first time, 
>> I'll go back to RFC status for now. (I thought the threads were 
>> sorted by subject title of the email and didnt check online if it was 
>> actually visible. )
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> The original message:
>> Hello all,
>> after the comments on the confusing nature of the word 'source' in my 
>> original proposal of 'electricity:source', I have now changed the 
>> name to 'electricity:origin' as suggested on the discussion page. 
>> Furthermore, I would like to revive and extend the proposal of the 
>> key 'electricity' as this previously conflicted with parts of the 
>> electricity:source proposal and was not consistent.
>> Both proposal pages:
>> [1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/electricity
>> [2] 
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Proposed_features/electricity:source 
>> The idea now is to allow for the tagging of buildings or amenities 
>> that have electricity. The rationale is described in more detail at 
>> [1]. Tags such as access, fee, schedule and origin can then narrow 
>> down the availability to the public and the question of financial or 
>> direct origin of the electricity.
>> This is distinct from the drafted tag power_supply as it is used to 
>> describe the type of sockets used at a specific outlet. The values 
>> for that tag are still currently under discussion.
>> I would also not tag this as a subset of power=* as this maps the 
>> facilities and features that relate to the generation and 
>> distribution of electrical power and should not be used to map the 
>> consumers of electricity.
>> I am eager to hear the feedback to the revised proposals!
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 
>> Also, perhaps relevant: both the power_supply 
>> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:power_supply> and socket 
>> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:socket> keys describe the 
>> same feature. power_supply so far has occasionally been used in the 
>> manner that electricity proposes to be. Unfortunately, the proposal 
>> for power_supply is relatively inconsistent. I think the socket:* tag 
>> is better thought out and also currently more used. I would be in 
>> favor of deprecating power_supply and separating the two meanings it 
>> currently has into electricity=* and socket:*=#.
>> Regards,
>> Lukas
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