[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - electricity=*

Joseph Eisenberg joseph.eisenberg at gmail.com
Thu Nov 5 18:58:17 UTC 2020

> Re: "Perhaps it would also be possible to then tag electricity:grid=yes
and electricity=no in the case of grid connected houses experiencing a
long-term power outage during a natural disaster?"

Generally OpenStreetMap data is not updated frequently enough by mappers
and database users for us to map temporary states (e.g. anything which
lasts less than 6 months). Many database users will download a data extract
for offline use and only update this every 3 months or so - see Maps.me for
example, and perhaps facebook's  use of OpenStreetMap data.

And most objects in OpenStreetMap are currently only checked and updated
once every few years.

Perhaps someday the community of mappers will be vibrant enough that we
could imagine updating tags every month or every week, but at this point
such a situation is very far away. So for now we should encourage mappers
to focus on permanent or semi-permanent characteristics which are unlikely
to change in the next few months.

-- Joseph Eisenberg

On Thu, Nov 5, 2020 at 6:36 AM Lukas Richert <lrichert at posteo.de> wrote:

> I have now switched over the tagging and examples to the namespace based
> tagging of grid and generator. Overall, this makes it easier and clearer to
> tag backup generators and grid-connected houses with solar panels etc IMO.
> Perhaps it would also be possible to then tag electricity:grid=yes and
> electricity=no in the case of grid connected houses experiencing a
> long-term power outage during a natural disaster?
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/electricity
> Regards, Lukas
> On 03/11/2020 22:07, Lukas Richert wrote:
> I also think the *electricity:grid=yes/no/backup* and
> *electricity:generator=yes/no/backup* tags are clearer and would allow
> for off-grid buildings to be tagged more distinctly.
> The electricity tag isn't used a lot yet. I have no experience with
> automated or semi-automated edits, but perhaps changing electricity=none
> and electricity=grid to electricity:grid=yes would be relatively
> straightforward? (This is unfortunately the problem with people adding
> major undiscussed/proposed tags to the main wiki. Especially power_supply
> is frustrating. )
> What do others think about the tag options
> electricity:grid=yes/no/backup
> electricity:generator=yes/no/backup
> electricity=yes
> electricity=no
> [electricity=yes would be used when grid or generator is unknown] instead
> of
> electricity=grid
> electricity=generator
> electricity=yes
> electricity=no
> Cheers Lukas
> On 03/11/2020 21:20, Andrew Harvey wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Nov 2020 at 00:13, Lukas Richert <lrichert at posteo.de> wrote:
>> Hi,
>> While the original proposal did specify that generators are usually
>> diesel, broadening the definition would only lead to a loss of detail, but
>> the tagging would still be correct. I'm hesitant to use *offgrid* as a
>> building that has, for example, a grid connection with solar panels on the
>> roof would then be tagged as *electricity=grid;offgrid* instead of
>> *electricity=grid;generator*. The former is illogical.
>> However, I don't have any experience in developing countries: is it
>> easier to verify if something is off-grid compared to if it is connected to
>> a generator? And, would it be necessary to differentiate between local
>> grids (i.e. 2-3 generators, no substations, transfromers, etc.) and
>> national grids? Perhaps then a network tag would be useful, i.e.
>> network=national, local, regional similar to the way cycle networks are
>> mapped?
>> A further suggestion was to change the tagging to
>> *electricity:grid=yes/no/backup* and/or
>> *electricity:generator=yes/no/backup*. This might be less ambiguous for
>> tagging amenities or buildings that get electricity from both sources and
>> would then be more consistent with tagging such as
>> *electricity:generator:origin=diesel* when, e.g. a building has a backup
>> diesel generator but is connected to the grid. Unfortunately, it would then
>> not be consistent with the use by the Healthsites Mapping Project, although
>> this already has the inconsistent *electricity=none* tag which should
>> probably be changed directly to *electricity=no.*
> Here is the link to that suggestion I made
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/electricity#multiple_values
>  and
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/electricity#origin_of_different_sources
> The whole point of the proposal process is to identify these potential
> issues, resolve them, and get community agreement. If the goal is just to
> implement someone else's standard then we can't use the wisdom of the
> community here to improve the tag, therefore I'm not too fussed about
> making this match what another project is using, instead we should aim to
> have the best tags and documentation as the outcome of this proposal
> process. Then if that's different, other projects closely tied to OSM can
> migrate to the OSM community accepted schema.
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