[Tagging] Questions about public transport tagging

Alan Mackie aamackie at gmail.com
Sat Nov 14 11:05:36 UTC 2020

On Fri, 13 Nov 2020 at 22:54, ipswichmapper--- via Tagging <
tagging at openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> Hello, I have quite a few questions about Public Transport related tagging
> in Openstreetmap.
> My first question is about the "interval:conditional" & "opening_hours"
> tag for bus routes. The "Bus Route" page on the OSM wiki mentions this tag,
> but the train route or "public transport" route page does not mention this
> tag at all. So I wanted to ask, is this tag discouraged?
> The disadvantage of this tag, obviously, is that it is quite difficult to
> maintain. However, I think it is possible. My method would be to make a
> table which contains all the public transport route relations in an area,
> and add a column for "last checked". This would display the last date that
> this public transport route was checked. Regular mappers can do a check of
> a bunch of public transport routes every few months to see if the
> opening_hours or interval:conditional has changed. (I plan on including
> this on a guide to mapping public transport routes that I will be making).
> Here is the table for Ipswich:
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Ipswich#Public_Transport_Version_2
> Note currently, this is not formatted how I described. The reason for this
> is because not every bus routes has been added, so instead of having a
> "last checked" column, there are four columns ("interval",
> "interval:conditional", "duration", "opening_hours"). This is because some
> of the unfinished routes still don't have these tags.
> Second question is about mapping train route stops. If I understand
> correctly, you are meant to add the platform at which people wait with role
> "platform" as well as the stop position of the train with role "stop".
> I see issue with this. Firstly, none of this is clarified on the wiki
> under train routes. Secondly, what if you don't know what platform the
> train will leave from? What if there is no platform? In the UK this isn't a
> problem as all train stations have platforms. However, in other countries,
> in rural areas, train stations may not have any built up platform, you just
> wait by the side of the railway.
> Secondly, why do you have to map stops and not platforms? Again, if the
> train goes at different platforms, then the stop position will also be
> different. You may not know what the stop position is, in which case you
> chose a random point on the railroad. Instead, it would be much better if
> you could just mark the "station" as a member of the relation. However,
> there is no "station" role, so adding a station creates a role verification
> problem.
> Last question is about "combining intervals". This is something that, if
> needed, can be asked about in another thread (as it needs more discussion).
> In many cases, multiple bus routes go down the same path for a significant
> section of their journey, and split near the end of their journey.  An
> example of this is route 66 & route 66A in Ipswich. [1][2][3]
> For most of their journey, these buses have the same route. Combined,
> their interval is "every 20 minutes". The interval of 66A is every hour.
> The 66 has a 20 minute interval, then a 40 minute one, then a 20 min one,
> etc.
> If these were mapped separately, you a routing software wouldn't be able
> to compute that the interval is 20 minutes. So how can this be fixed?
> The solution I can think of is to map a separate relation called
> ("66/66A") which is the combined route and give it a interval of 20
> minutes. However, I'm pretty sure some tags would be needed to be made for
> this, because otherwise it breaks the ground rule (as there is no bus
> called "66/66A" in real life).
> Another interesting idea was suggested in this Reddit post:
> https://old.reddit.com/r/openstreetmap/comments/jkdsjr/common_area_of_bus_routes/
> That is that roads with multiple bus routes can be tagged with the bus
> route, instead of the other way route (to cut down on repetition).
> Thanks,
> IpswichMapper
> [1]: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/190701
> [2]: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/9984463
> [3]:
> https://www.firstgroup.com/uploads/maps/FEC-Ipswich%20Reds%2066%20-%20Bus%20Times%20from%2025-10-20.pdf
> I think under PTv2 the point you board/alight is meant to be marked as a
platform even when it's just a pole in muddy ground. I have also seen
recent proponents say that stop positions are not compulsory although I
think on one of the first things I saw on PTv2 was strongly of the view
that mainly using stops over platforms was one of its main advantages.

For the 66/66A question: I think under PTv2 each direction for each variant
is meant to have its own route relation which is then combined into a
route_master relation. I would assume that if you have an interval that
applies across variants you would put that in the route_master rather than
the individual route.

Take what I say with a grain of salt though, while I do my best to
map/update stops I find it very difficult to stitch information displayed
on stops into meaningful relations, especially when I've looked at the
various stops on different days.
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