[Tagging] power lines/cables power

François Lacombe fl.infosreseaux at gmail.com
Thu Nov 19 14:08:47 UTC 2020


Hi André

It's great to have such a discussion here as to move forward on power
routing.
Answers below

Le mer. 18 nov. 2020 à 02:38, André Pirard <a.pirard.papou at gmail.com> a
écrit :

>
> Haille François,
>
> Merci pour ta réponse.
> So, I was told that 7,5 GW rating by an ALEGrO engineer but I didn't see
> it on OSM. He didn't mention 1 GW.
>

7.5 GW is really huge for a single system.
This : https://www.amprion.net/Grid-expansion/Our-Projects/ALEGrO/ states
1000 MW only.


> So I looked all over the wiki.
> Passing an accepted proposal that should say that it is overridden by
> another one, typical wiki, I saw no mention of power rating except for
> generators. And that cable has dead ends.
>
Rating was proposed for power transformers
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Transformer_extension_proposal
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dtransformer#Tagging
Generators got an output value with generator:output:electricity

Which proposal is overridden please?

And in the proposal you show, I see no mention of power rating either, esp.
> in the relation.
>
That's right, the proposal introduces a new relation formalism to put
properties on power systems (ALEGrO is a power system, composed of a line
and other components)
We will be able to add ratings, like frequency or operating voltage on that
system.


> A typical OSM browser needs to be an expert already to know how to look at
> tags and do so.
> Let alone guessing that what he does not find could be in a relation.
>
We're not responsible for world complexity and we need reliable models to
describe what actually exists.
Editors, tools, render, documentation are here to help to do so.
i.e. that's counterproductive to make things more intuitive than they
actually are for sake of edition ease.

Furthermore, I don't see at all how a relation could indicate the
> operational *power ratings of branches*.
>
It can't indeed.
It's the same as voltage: some branches could be designed up to 400 kV but
the whole system will be operating at 220 kV
So power lines branches will get voltage=400000 and the system relation
will get voltage=220000
Is this difference clearer?
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/Power_routing_proposal#Splitting_logical_from_physical_infrastructure

Puting system rating on physical route is the same as marking public
transport buses capacity on osm highway ways
We actually have public transport relations for that


> All in all, I continue to believe that a cable or line should indicate
> their power ratings.
>
Yes, but that's not what we discuss about here since ALEGrO is a power
system
Public documentation will give the system rating, not the cable design in
detail (I think but change my mind)

power:maximum=7.5 GW
> power:used=1 GW
>

That's a nice try thank you
Those values should be on two separate osm features according to what we
intend to do regarding power systems
I have doubts on the sense of "used": used values change every second.
Don't we deal with operated value instead?


> Quite self-describing and friendly.
> Please discuss this matter and warn me of any change.
>

Power routing proposal is still in RFC and its author is waiting for API
0.7 to start voting.
It's a pity since this topic deserve a clear and reliable tagging to
provide a better understanding to everyone
Our discussion (and many before and certainly many in the future) help to
refine wording and improve docs and explanations

All the best

François
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