[Tagging] Cycling infrastructure routes (was Re: cyclist profiles - was:Feature Proposal - RFC - value 'basic_network' - cycle_network?)

[Volker Schmidt]

A short clarification to avoid confusion.
A cycleway in OSM speak is road for exclusive use by cyclists. The cycle
routes around here consist of continuous strings of roads of different
types: cycleways, combined foot-cycle-ways, minor roads shared with
motorised traffic, roads with painted cycle lanes, single track paved or
unpaved agricultural roads, single track unpaved service roads along minor
and major waterways (on top of the dykes that protect the lower laying land
from flooding), pedestrian areas in towns (which by default are open to
cyclists),  short stretches of footways (where you are expected to
dismount, many zebra crossings, bus lanes in many cities, ecc.
Cycle routes are not made exlusively of cycleways.

On Mon, 6 Dec 2021, 01:59 stevea, <steveaOSM at softworkers.com> wrote:

> Verzig?  Nien.  These things unfold at their own, very human-based,
> worldwide pace.  Sometimes "things take years."  Maybe we could say that
> about this, maybe not, it seems like doing that is in our rear-view mirror
> anyway. We take the time here (with effort and patience, sometimes large
> amounts!) to "design well."  This is the tagging list.  What we do a good
> deal of here is answer "how do we sensibly tag?"
>
> The talk about a "new kind of route that is a kind of bicycle net" seems
> it should start earlier, though.  I'm listening, but there is a
> "quick-to-dismiss" feeling I get:  too much is being conflated (or fuzzies,
> is my problem) all of a sudden (in my mind) at that "natural grouping"
> between
>
> paths (a collection of them, independent of and abstract from any specific
> datum to represent that),
> routes, which are a rather exactly and peculiarly (particularly) specific
> "things" we (OSM) already utter into our syntax (and ditto from above, in a
> certain way of looking at things), and
> networks (ditto twice).
>
> Let's say that "networks are groupings of routes" as a works-for-now,
> slightly-blurry-focus definition.  Now, what is the "thing" you are
> describing?  I realize it may feel like I straightjacket the discussion
> into "those three roles" (paths, routes, networks).  I need that framework
> as "basic structure" (of math, of logic, of language, of sanity?) to cling
> to as you describe "what you've got there" with that framework.  Otherwise,
> you really spill so far outside of "how we do what we're doing here (in a
> mapping database that already well-maps logically to paths, routes and
> networks)" that you must stand rather tall in the language department.  It
> could even be a sort of mathematical way of explaining it.  We know math.
> We understand language (limiting as it can be).
>
> Extending that... (paths, routes, networks) and how the lines blur from
> there to "extend into something new?"  Well, I'm listening.  There is a lot
> of (lengthy, though) wide input about how we might best do this.
>
> I know, JochenB, I know.  This can be quite difficult!
>
> > On Dec 5, 2021, at 4:34 PM, JochenB <JochenB at wolke7.net> wrote:
> >
> > Am 01.12.2021 um 20:47 schrieb Flips:
> >> I like the railway-input from Minh.
> >> Separating the net from the routes.
> >> I could imagine to continue using route=bicycle as it has been used
> >> mostly so far for named or numbered (recreational) routes and
> >> introducing route=bicycle_net for the big city or district-networks
> >> and route=bicycle_higway for the fast tracks as existing in different
> >> places.
> >> Like this the network-tag can still be used as before.
> >
> > For my proposal I find the idea 'route = bicycle_net' interesting. I had
> > neither the idea nor the courage to propose a new type of route.
> > Exciting discussion (even if I can only follow up with verzig)!
> >
> >
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