[Tagging] Proposed feature - Voting - electricity
lrichert at posteo.de
Fri Jan 1 10:25:39 UTC 2021
Ah I replied on the wiki, but I'll do so here to with some more examples.
On 01/01/2021 08:34, Joseph Eisenberg wrote:
> I still have 3 major concerns with this proposal.
> 1) I share the concerns of Mateusz Konieczny that a tag like "
> electricity:grid:origin=hydro" is not verifiable, it's just
> advertising. I don't think this is something we should try to map in
> OpenStreetMap, because we try to avoid adding tags which are
> advertising claims which cannot be confirmed to be true or false.
The wiki explicitly mentions financial means and guarantees of origin
are financial products and physics obviously dictates that electrons are
not distinguishable particles. However, in OSM we also map organic farm
shops and opening hours advertising among a host of other features that
are indicated by signage. These are also not verifiable by a mapper and
can be changed on a moments notice. If a sign clearly indicates
'renewable energy' then it should be possible for it to be tagged. If
you personally don't believe this makes any difference, then simply
don't use these tags to filter, but please do allow others to make that
(N.B: This entire project for me started because a group asked me to
filter out bicycle charging stations that only used renewable energy. I
quickly noticed that while I could find bicycle charging stations, I
couldn't filter them by renewable enrgy and they had to resort to
calling ahead and asking dozens of people.)
> 2) More importantly I still disagree with calling solar panels a
> "generator" and requiring 2 extra tags to map when a remote building
> in a developing country is powered by a diesel/gas generator. Right
> now electricity=generator is easy to use and makes sense based on the
> standard meaning of "generator" in English as a gas/diesel powered
> generator. After this proposal, to tag this we would have to tag
> electricity=intermittent + electricity:generator=yes +
> electricity:generator:input=diesel, I think?
Both the general definition and the OSM definition of a generator
include any devices that convert (primary) energy from one form into
another. This includes diesel engines, but also wind, solar and
coal-powered generators among others. Thus, the defintion here is
consistent with power=generator.
> 3) It is unclear when we should use electricity=intermittent.
> When I lived in Sentani, in Indonesia, the power would go out for a
> couple hours, every other day, at random times, but it was available
> for at least 20 hours a day. Is that electricity=intermittent or
> What if there is only electricity for 3 hours every evening on a
> regular schedule? Is that electricity=intermittent or electricity=no
> or electricity=yes?
> It seems like this proposal is designed for mapping developed
> countries and has not considered other situations.
Since there is a likelihood that electricity is not available when it
goes out at random times, electricity=intermittent would be the right
tag. Tagging when electricity is scheduled is described in
Some more examples, I can add some to the wiki as well:
in the case of electricity every evening for 3 hours, e.g. from
17:00-20:00, the tagging would be electricity:conditional=yes @
If electricity is intermittently available between 10:00 and 18:00
on weekdays only but always on from 18:00-20:00 every day then it
would be electricity:conditional = intermittent @ (Mo-Fr
10:00-18:00); yes @ (Mo-Su 18:00-20:00).
Other conditions can also be added using the syntax of
Has this alleviated some concerns at least?
> -- Joseph Eisenberg
> On Thu, Dec 31, 2020 at 7:06 AM Lukas Richert <lrichert at posteo.de
> <mailto:lrichert at posteo.de>> wrote:
> > As there were no further comments to the electricity proposal, I'd like
> > to try another vote. I've gone into more detail on the tag transition
> > and deprecation and changed the tagging to only be used for public
> > amenities and buildings, which was the main concern.
> > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/electricity
> > Happy new year to everyone!
> > - Lukas
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