[Tagging] Proposed feature - Voting - electricity

Lukas Richert lrichert at posteo.de
Sat Jan 2 19:24:57 UTC 2021

That is *precisely* the purpose of the tagging.

The conversation got a bit off-track questioning the longevity of the 
tag, but I think it will still be relevant for 20-30 years. I mean we 
have tagging for covid19 opening hours - they'll hopefully have a 
shorter lifespan!

On 02/01/2021 20:00, Brian M. Sperlongano wrote:
> I was under the impression that the purpose of tagging the electricity 
> source was for electricity consumers that wished to discern between 
> green energy and fossil fuel-supplied energy (or some other 
> characteristic which might influence their decision) when "shopping", 
> if you will, for a point-of-use electricity provider.
> However, if an entire region or country has their electricity supplied 
> by a common source, I would not be in favor of mapping every single 
> electric outlet with this fact.
> On Sat, Jan 2, 2021 at 1:37 PM Lukas Richert <lrichert at posteo.de 
> <mailto:lrichert at posteo.de>> wrote:
>     Let's not be needlessly pedantic - sure 95% probably also works.
>     The point is, compared to the age of the map, this will be a
>     relevant feature for a significant amount of time, at least in
>     some countries. If the feaure is not advertised anymore, the tag
>     dies out on its own.
>     On 02/01/2021 15:55, Paul Allen wrote:
>>     On Sat, 2 Jan 2021 at 14:32, Lukas Richert <lrichert at posteo.de
>>     <mailto:lrichert at posteo.de>> wrote:
>>         When a country completely switches to renewable energies in
>>         their grid, I would be overjoyed to completely delete the
>>         electricity:grid:origin tags in that region.
>>     So you think it necessary to wait for 100% renewable on the grid?
>>     99.99999% is not good enough?  How about 99%? 98%?  Where
>>     do you draw the line on that?
>>     In reality, the point where the tag can be removed is when nobody
>>     advertises the source any more.  And that will come long before
>>     100% (or 98%) switchover on the grid.  At some point there is
>>     no financial return to be had from advertising renewable sources,
>>     when non-renewable sources are a rare exception.  That point
>>     will actually be even earlier than that, when renewables are
>>     common enough that the gains from advertising renewable
>>     sources fall short of the costs of the advertising.
>>         Most countries are aiming for this to occur by 2050 with many
>>         still falling
>>     China recently changed the game.  It realized it was now cheaper
>>     to use
>>     renewables than non-renewables, so committed to a shorter timescale.
>>     Economies of scale from China alone mean that renewable costs,
>>     already cheaper than non-renewable, will fall even more.  There's
>>     a reason Exxon-Mobil is no longer in the Dow Jones 30-stock
>>     benchmark: it's not going to be a big profit maker in the future
>>     so people are no longer paying a lot for the stock.
>>     Advanced countries with competent leadership are starting to follow
>>     China's lead as they realize there's a large manufacturing industry
>>     developing that will be based in China unless they set up their own
>>     industries.  They either compete with China now or buy the hardware
>>     from China for a long time to come.
>>     We have reached a tipping-point in the climate change crisis: the one
>>     where it's cheaper RIGHT NOW to do something than not do
>>     something.  Future returns are not great drivers: "Do something
>>     now or you'll regret it in 30 years because of the expense of
>>     dealing with severe climate change" doesn't influence markets
>>     much.  "Do it now and you'll make money now" is a great driver.
>>     I don't see this tag having a long life.
>>     -- 
>>     Paul
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