[Tagging] maxspeed:signed=no - new proposed tag

Colin Smale colin.smale at xs4all.nl
Sun Jan 3 21:37:20 UTC 2021

Watch out for the legal extent of the effect of a sign. In NL a sign
(including maxspeed) is assumed to apply "for the current section of
road" i.e. until the next junction. In the UK on the other hand a
maxspeed sign is assumed to apply "until further notice," i.e. until you
pass another sign OR you enter/leave a built-up area (which is often a
grey area in itself) OR you drive onto a different type of road with a
different default speed limit. 

Excepting special cases such as the Autobahn in Germany, there is ALWAYS
a maxspeed, whether it is signed or not. Whether the absence/presence of
a sign affects your legal footing is jurisdiction-dependent. In NL the
offence is created by the presence of a sign - if there is no sign, then
the default applies. In the UK, the offence is created by a legal
document, which is not dependent on the presence of signs. If there is
no sign, or if the sign says a different value, that can be offered to
the court in mitigation, but the offence has still been "committed." 

Bottom line: I can't see any added value from maxspeed:signed=no.

On 2021-01-03 22:14, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote:

> Surveying maxspeed is clearly useful and relatively[1] simple. 
> But surveying and tagging cases where there is no signed maxspeed and 
> it default to what is specified by law is often problematic. 
> (1) we have no tag for "there is no maxspeed signage applying here" 
> (2) default maxspeed rules are often extremely complex 
> For example Poland has separate speed limits for 
> - vehicles below 3.5t 
> - vehicles with trailer or above 3.5t or trucks 
> - buses 
> (3) tagging exact max speed is often de facto impossible as it 
> requires remembering that there are separate rules for 
> - dual carriageway with 2 or more lanes in each direction 
> - dual carriageway with 1 lane in each direction 
> (Poland) 
> - roundabout 
> - urban road that is not a roundabout 
> (El Salvador) 
> - road without asphalt or concrete surface 
> - road with asphalt or concrete surface in an unincorporated area 
> (Alaska) 
> For more gory details https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Default_speed_limits 
> (4) tagging exact speed limit info therefore requires both survey to confirm 
> that no signed speed limits applies and legal analysis (or using output of that) 
> and extra information. Right now mapper is supposed to do both in one step 
> what is not feasible. 
> Having "maxspeed:signed=no" to tag "there is no signed maxspeed here, 
> no speed limits signs, zoned speed limit does not apply, default 
> legal regulation apply" would allow sane survey that does not require 
> consulting local legislation to tag speed limits. 
> [1] speed limit zones, max speed differing depending on direction, 
> speed limits applying only to some vehicle types, speed limits 
> applying only on specific times etc all exist. 
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