[Tagging] maxspeed:signed=no - new proposed tag
Colin Smale
colin.smale at xs4all.nl
Sun Jan 3 21:37:20 UTC 2021
Watch out for the legal extent of the effect of a sign. In NL a sign
(including maxspeed) is assumed to apply "for the current section of
road" i.e. until the next junction. In the UK on the other hand a
maxspeed sign is assumed to apply "until further notice," i.e. until you
pass another sign OR you enter/leave a built-up area (which is often a
grey area in itself) OR you drive onto a different type of road with a
different default speed limit.
Excepting special cases such as the Autobahn in Germany, there is ALWAYS
a maxspeed, whether it is signed or not. Whether the absence/presence of
a sign affects your legal footing is jurisdiction-dependent. In NL the
offence is created by the presence of a sign - if there is no sign, then
the default applies. In the UK, the offence is created by a legal
document, which is not dependent on the presence of signs. If there is
no sign, or if the sign says a different value, that can be offered to
the court in mitigation, but the offence has still been "committed."
Bottom line: I can't see any added value from maxspeed:signed=no.
On 2021-01-03 22:14, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote:
> Surveying maxspeed is clearly useful and relatively[1] simple.
>
> But surveying and tagging cases where there is no signed maxspeed and
> it default to what is specified by law is often problematic.
>
> (1) we have no tag for "there is no maxspeed signage applying here"
>
> (2) default maxspeed rules are often extremely complex
>
> For example Poland has separate speed limits for
> - vehicles below 3.5t
> - vehicles with trailer or above 3.5t or trucks
> - buses
>
> (3) tagging exact max speed is often de facto impossible as it
> requires remembering that there are separate rules for
>
> - dual carriageway with 2 or more lanes in each direction
> - dual carriageway with 1 lane in each direction
> (Poland)
>
> - roundabout
> - urban road that is not a roundabout
> (El Salvador)
>
> - road without asphalt or concrete surface
> - road with asphalt or concrete surface in an unincorporated area
> (Alaska)
>
> For more gory details https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Default_speed_limits
>
> (4) tagging exact speed limit info therefore requires both survey to confirm
> that no signed speed limits applies and legal analysis (or using output of that)
> and extra information. Right now mapper is supposed to do both in one step
> what is not feasible.
>
> Having "maxspeed:signed=no" to tag "there is no signed maxspeed here,
> no speed limits signs, zoned speed limit does not apply, default
> legal regulation apply" would allow sane survey that does not require
> consulting local legislation to tag speed limits.
>
> [1] speed limit zones, max speed differing depending on direction,
> speed limits applying only to some vehicle types, speed limits
> applying only on specific times etc all exist.
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