[Tagging] maxspeed:signed=no - new proposed tag

Mateusz Konieczny matkoniecz at tutanota.com
Sun Jan 3 21:52:07 UTC 2021


Yes, maxspeed applies to some road section (until next junction or until explicit end of zone
sign for zoned sign or until implicit zone sign for some cases).

Still, there are many roads where no signed speed limit applies and speed limit specified by
law applies. Often tagging it requires legal survey, not just checking situation on the ground
(or remembering all rules).

Some countries/regions may have reasonable set of rules, but often it is ridiculous
to expect that mapper will remember all this rules and able to apply them on spot
while surveying.

But tagging "no signed speed limit" is both doable and useful. And this tag 
is intended to enable this.


Jan 3, 2021, 22:37 by colin.smale at xs4all.nl:

>
> Watch out for the legal extent of the effect of a sign. In NL a sign (including maxspeed) is assumed to apply "for the current section of road" i.e. until the next junction. In the UK on the other hand a maxspeed sign is assumed to apply "until further notice," i.e. until you pass another sign OR you enter/leave a built-up area (which is often a grey area in itself) OR you drive onto a different type of road with a different default speed limit.
>
>
> Excepting special cases such as the Autobahn in Germany, there is ALWAYS a maxspeed, whether it is signed or not. Whether the absence/presence of a sign affects your legal footing is jurisdiction-dependent. In NL the offence is created by the presence of a sign - if there is no sign, then the default applies. In the UK, the offence is created by a legal document, which is not dependent on the presence of signs. If there is no sign, or if the sign says a different value, that can be offered to the court in mitigation, but the offence has still been "committed."
>
>
> Bottom line: I can't see any added value from maxspeed:signed=no.
>
>  
>
>
>
>
> On 2021-01-03 22:14, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote:
>
>
>> Surveying maxspeed is clearly useful and relatively[1] simple.
>>  
>> But surveying and tagging cases where there is no signed maxspeed and
>> it default to what is specified by law is often problematic.
>>  
>> (1) we have no tag for "there is no maxspeed signage applying here"
>>  
>> (2) default maxspeed rules are often extremely complex
>>  
>> For example Poland has separate speed limits for
>> - vehicles below 3.5t
>> - vehicles with trailer or above 3.5t or trucks
>> - buses
>>  
>> (3) tagging exact max speed is often de facto impossible as it
>> requires remembering that there are separate rules for
>>  
>> - dual carriageway with 2 or more lanes in each direction
>> - dual carriageway with 1 lane in each direction
>> (Poland)
>>  
>> - roundabout
>> - urban road that is not a roundabout
>> (El Salvador)
>>  
>> - road without asphalt or concrete surface
>> - road with asphalt or concrete surface in an unincorporated area
>> (Alaska)
>>  
>> For more gory details >> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Default_speed_limits
>>  
>> (4) tagging exact speed limit info therefore requires both survey to confirm
>> that no signed speed limits applies and legal analysis (or using output of that)
>> and extra information. Right now mapper is supposed to do both in one step
>> what is not feasible.
>>  
>> Having "maxspeed:signed=no" to tag "there is no signed maxspeed here,
>> no speed limits signs, zoned speed limit does not apply, default
>> legal regulation apply" would allow sane survey that does not require
>> consulting local legislation to tag speed limits.
>>  
>> [1] speed limit zones, max speed differing depending on direction,
>> speed limits applying only to some vehicle types, speed limits
>> applying only on specific times etc all exist.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>  Tagging mailing list
>>  >> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
>>  >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>

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