[Tagging] RFC: Seaway key - proposal for mapping ports

[Bert -Araali- Van Opstal]

I must admit that this proposal doesn't address all the worldwide 
"harbours" for small scale "non-leisure" and "anchorages".

We tagged all of these as leisure=marina 
(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure%3Dmarina 
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure%3Dmarina>), although 
they are mostly not for pleasure boats and yachts as the wiki says, just 
because there wasn't a suitable tag in OSM. Here we call them "landing 
sites".  Mostly they are not "developed" ports, just beaches or shallow 
water, bays etc... where fishermen land and or moor their boats (and 
some of them are big, having hundreds of boats). "Small" boats in 
western terms but some of them can be of a reasonable size and locally 
called "big boats", but not trawlers or ships. So there is a large gap, 
which is not addressed by this proposal.

This proposal also doesn't seem to address specifically how we should 
tag ports in sweat water bodies, large lakes have large boats both for 
cargo and as ferries. However this proposal only seems to target "sea" 
ports. Our landing sites are similar, regardless if they appear along 
the ocean or sea or at large lakes, of which we have many.
We never or rarely use the harbour=yes tag, as it says on the 
leisure=marina page it should only be used for "suitable for ships, 
trawlers or sea-going vessels" or use harbour to relate them to sites 
where you have some kind of man_made mooring, piers or docks.  And if we 
have man_made facilities most of these places are called "ports", not 
harbour, which is going to be very confusing if this proposal is 
restricted to sea-ports.

Which brings me to my final point, why new top-level key(s) in a rather 
confusing key as "seaway" instead of extending the wiki page and 
additional values or combinations in the existing harbour=* 
(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:harbour 
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:harbour>), which can be used 
for both sweat and salt water bodies, harbours and ports alike ? Why 
deviate significantly from the wiki page on harbours 
(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Harbour 
<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Harbour>) that describes these 
features and the different terms (port, harbour etc...) quite well in my 
opinion without referring to any "seaway" tag or gap in tagging.  Is 
this going to depreciate harbour=*, create a duplicate tagging scheme 
for harbours at sea ? Can you please clarify ?

Greetings,

Bert Araali

On 06/03/2021 02:49, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote:
>
>
>
> On Fri, 5 Mar 2021 at 20:38, Martin Koppenhoefer 
> <dieterdreist at gmail.com <mailto:dieterdreist at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     I am asking for your comments to this proposal for mapping ports:
>     https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Seaway
>     <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Seaway>
>
>
> One question & a couple of suggestions.
>
> How will it relate to https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Harbour 
> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Harbour>, or will a harbour 
> contain various types of ports?
>
> A couple of other variations that could possibly be included are 
> anchorages & boat harbours for small, leisure vessels?
>
> Yes, https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure%3Dmarina 
> <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:leisure%3Dmarina> exists, but 
> that is for a developed area with piers, berths, refueling facilities 
> etc, while an anchorage is only an area of sheltered water protected 
> by something like an island or a breakwater, usually without any 
> facilities. eg
> https://www.tangalooma.com/TangaloomaV2/media/GeneratedImages/800x600/Wrecks-Aerial-2.JPG 
> <https://www.tangalooma.com/TangaloomaV2/media/GeneratedImages/800x600/Wrecks-Aerial-2.JPG>
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=17/-27.16302/153.37015 
> <https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=17/-27.16302/153.37015>
>
> A boat harbour is also intended as a safe anchorage for small, 
> pleasure vessels, but will be better protected than an anchorage, 
> although it will often have no facilities either eg
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/426948900 
> <https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/426948900>
> https://goo.gl/maps/hwC6pg2ixLMEq4LQA 
> <https://goo.gl/maps/hwC6pg2ixLMEq4LQA>
>
> Thanks
>
> Graeme
>
>
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