[Tagging] Tagging of food declarations in restaurants

[Toggenburger Lukas]

Frederik wrote:

> I think that in general this is not geodata, these are business
> decisions by the shop and they can change from one day to the next, and
> we will not be able to keep track. Therefore, the information will rot.

Erm, we do have the same information rot for "strict-sense" geodata as well... Speed limits change, roads are closed for construction work, buildings get torn down, etc. all the time.

I asked a restaurant owner from a neighbouring restaurant about the declaration update frequency. He said it's about twice per year, usually due to venison coming on and getting off the menu. (Meanwhile, the rest will stay the same.) I asked the manager of the canteen at my working place: She said the declaration has not changed in over 4 years (since she started working there). My initial (obviously totally anecdote-based) data shows that these declarations don't change THAT often... Have you made other experiences?

Frederik wrote:

> "this shop accepts the following types of bitcoin"

Nils wrote:

> If I go to a bar and find out that they started allowing smoking, I
> will tag that immediately.

And if someone finds out they can't use their favorite crypto currency anymore, they will tag it accordingly.

Nils wrote:

> I agree that it is too detailed.

Isn't it the same with all tags? One man's trash is another man's treasure? I guess everyone can name a few tags that totally don't interest him/her...

I introduced the `food:` prefix to gather associated tags when sorted alphabetically. Is there something we can change in order to get out of the way?

I envision that when the food declaration tagging gets traction, it will encourage new (food-interested) people to OSM tagging. And when it does, they will not only tag and update food declarations, but also the building that was newly constructed vis-à-vis the restaurant. This in turn will strengthen our community and data in general... So I don't see this tagging scheme as a threat, but rather as a chance.

Best regards

Lukas



________________________________________
Von: Niels Elgaard Larsen <elgaard at agol.dk>
Gesendet: Samstag, 6. November 2021 15:55
An: tagging at openstreetmap.org
Betreff: Re: [Tagging] Tagging of food declarations in restaurants

På Sat, 6 Nov 2021 14:29:15 +0100
Frederik Ramm <frederik at remote.org> skrev:
>Hi,
>
>On 11/5/21 21:21, Toggenburger Lukas wrote:
>> tl;dr I would like to develop a tagging scheme specifying origin and
>> production methods for food (primarily meat) served in restaurants,
>> as well as some surrounding concepts.

I agree that it is too detailed.


>I don't think that this should be captured in OSM. My argument is
>essentially the same that I opposed the concepts of "this supermarket
>uses green energy" or "this shop accepts the following types of
>bitcoin" with - I think that in general this is not geodata, these are
>business decisions by the shop and they can change from one day to the
>next, and we will not be able to keep track. Therefore, the
>information will rot.
>
>I acknowledge that we have such kinds of data already - the opening
>times,

And cuisine, smoking, diet, etc.

> for example, are also a business decision that can change any
>time. I just think we shouldn't have more of that ;)


there are more than 20000 diet:vegan tags, 90 percent yes/only/limited.

It is my impression that we are able to keep track of these.
If you are a vegan and go to a vegan restaurant and discover that they
stopped serving vegan food, you are probably very motivated to fix the
tagging.

It is also my impression that restaurants that market themselves as
vegan or label dishes on menus as vegan, almost never just start serving
only meat-dishes. They may be replaced with another restaurant with
another name and different owner, but we often have ways to discover
that more or less automatically.


If I go to a bar and find out that they started allowing smoking, I
will tag that immediately.

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