[Tagging] RFC - Proposed features/emergency=lifeboat station

[Graeme Fitzpatrick]

On Wed, 7 Dec 2022 at 00:57, Marc_marc <marc_marc at mailo.com> wrote:

>
> - what are we mapping ? reading the description, this seems to be more
> of a landuse=ermergency than mapping an emergency service i.e. where
> you can go to get a service
>

The land-based location of emergency groups dedicated to the saving of
lives at sea.

I would not map a coordinating & controlling for doctors under
> emergency=* and so don't see a logic to map full "office only" place
> with a emergency=*
>

When you say "office only", do you mean observation / communication centres
such as https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/63985402? Yes, as discussed on
the talk page
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/emergency%3Dlifeboat_station#Use_on_Rescue-related_sites,
emergency=coastguard may be the best option for them, but that would
require further work on that tag, to ensure no confusion between military &
rescue-only Coastguards.

- proposing lifeboat_station for a helicopter rescue base seems
> to me a bad idea. a more generic tag without "boat" seems better.
> maybe rescue station (and it would be very logical to have the same
> term as seamark)
> otherwise another tag will naturally be created for those area
> where the proposed tag is counter-intuitive
>

I can't argue with you there, but when you look at
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/coastguard-search-and-rescue-helicopter-programme
&
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-contract-uses-the-latest-technology-for-search-and-rescue,
what do you call those bases?

- should we vote on the meaning of "Deprecated" for this particular
> proposal? and thus expose ourselves to having proposals with a different
> meaning? it seems to me that it would be better to take this content out
> of the proposal, this is not what we are voting on, instead a link to a
> page describing this meaning would be ideal
>

Sorry, you've got me a bit confused there? If we say that "this" is the tag
we're going to use, then the other , basically identical, tags should be
deprecated to reduce their use, especially when the same POI is tagged with
multiple tags, all meaning the same thing e.g. emergency=lifeboat_station &
amenity=lifeboat_station together

- are we voting also for all "Tags used in combination" ?
>

Maybe that should be marked as Possible tags to use in combination? Most
people probably wouldn't know enough about the activities of any particular
unit to use all of them, unless they were a member of that unit.


> the seamark mess (including duplicate and :type meaningless) would lead
> me to automatically vote no to a proposal that would try to include them
> in something else without reason
>

What is the problem with including "seamark" tags?


> - what's a lifeboat:class ?


e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Severn-class_lifeboat

- The various seamark categories *should* be included
> sorry I disagree. it may, it not mandatory and perfectly valid/usefull
> to create a object without these tags (especially those which
> are only repetition of other osm tags), the next contributor has
> the opportunity to add to the first contribution
>

As above, they "could" all be included if known. Working on
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Seamarks/Radio_Stations, " The tags
defined on this page will render in various nautical charts", I would have
thought that any information we can add would / could be valuable to other
users?

- lifeboat = offshore / inshore : the description is not clear


Sorry, dropped into technical talk! That refers to where the lifeboats is
intended to operate. Inshore is intended to operate within 5nm of the
coast, while offshore (also called All-weather) boats are deep-water craft,
up to 50nm out to sea.

if it informs the place of intervention of the boats (the stations of Lake
> Geneva are inshore despite of its size) or the extent of the coverage:
> a rescue station probably would be preferable to have a more generic
> tag, more thoughtful so that it can be applied to non-water rescue.
> something describing the extent (maybe scope)
>

Sorry, don't understand what you're getting at there?


> if not, does emergency=marine_rescue implie lifeboat=offshore or
> not always ?
>

Not always. Some units would have one have one class of boat, some the
other, & some units would be equipped with both to use as required

- Remove incorrect tagging of amenity=lifeboat, currently being used
> to show the location that lifeboats are moored at.
> ok, but list the correct tag
>

What's the correct tag to map a mobile feature i.e. a boat? We could change
this to lifeboat-mooring or similar, but that still doesn't get around the
problem of whether the boat is moored on this side of the jetty or that
side; or is it moored on the buoy in the harbour today?

Thanks

Graeme
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