[Tagging] An after-burner meta-discussion

[Topographe Fou]

To give some raw opinions on this topic (and I try to make them short):
0. Let us remind that OSM is not managed by a bunch of people but an open project which pretends to be "every tag you like" . Consequently human nature will make sure that we will always have such kind of debate. While trying to improve things we also have to live with it.
1. In real life a consensus is not an absolute Truth: If any (as a result of a vote or a discussion) it is valid at a certain point in time (we hope: in an infinite time frame), in a given context (we hope: All contexts), among the persons who approved (we hope: all OSM past, now and future members) that such solution is ONE consensus (we hope: THE consensus).
2. Consequently a consensus can change, and it is totally ok as soon as it went through a careful impact analysis and a wide discussion. Don't call a past consensus as a protection against a new consensus.
3. Consensus can be trusted by the community if nobody as a veto right. I insist on this point because some people think that some people own it.
4. Consensus is better reached if everyone is fare. Fare in their opinions, in their discussions, in their word, in their behaviour. By behaviour I include modifying the wiki (or whichever support) during a hot debate without highlighting that such modification is not yet a consensus, that a discussion is going on and without noticing the debating peoples (I call this trying to bend the consensus).
5. A consensus (or ONE solution) can be recognized as such only if it is properly documented in an official (and neutral) place. Today we only have the wiki. And this is often where things start to get wrong. How many people here take time to document the answers they see here on the wiki for instance?
6. Consensus quality is not a 48h rush debate where everyone need to give its opinion on the first day. It requires time, arguments and reflexions (like for votes). Most of the debates we have here are "solved" in a rush so that only people who have nothing else in their life than OSM can follow. There is often a ping pong with narrow opportunities to step in. Please give people (and yourself) time to think.

Now how can we improve ourself? I don't think we can have a qualitative digest of debates without spending as many energy to debate the digest content itself. Let focus on quality: Give time to people (so they will step in after having a reflexion time. If needed impose you a rule of 1 message per topic per day), take time to document farely pros and cons after a debate even if you "lost" a debate. Only time and fare can smoothened a consensus.

LeTopographeFou


	  Message original  	


De: steveaOSM at softworkers.com
Envoyé: 14 février 2022 7:50 PM
À: tagging at openstreetmap.org
Répondre à: tagging at openstreetmap.org
Objet: Re: [Tagging] An after-burner meta-discussion


To be more clear:  what I am talking about here is how what is very often, good, spirited discussion, with good ideas, good technical direction and so on, simply gets ignored.  It does not "flow forward in the greater flow(chart) of consensus."  Instead, (perhaps because of sheer volume?) it gets "vented off like hot gas from an oilfield flare," completely wasted as it is ignored.

What is beginning to emerge as I discuss this more off-list with a number of people is this:  there seems to be a great disconnect in how people "implement consensus" on this list.  (In short, we really don't).  I think this stems from a fundamental lack of understanding about what consensus really is.  And that exasperates me with what feels like an overwhelming task.

I don't know how to solve this, but it does seem an important initial direction is for a much broader segment of our community to be participating in actual processes of consensus.  In my opinion, we have a long way to go in that regard.  I mean, for example, try reading Wikipedia's article on consensus [1] (which is OK, but only the tip of a big iceberg) and see how close that comes to how this list conducts itself.  These are a far, far distance from each other.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus_decision-making
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