[Tagging] destination:symbol tag: country-specific symbols

[David Marchal]

I may have not made myself clear enough: I know that some symbols are multinational by essence, such as the motorway symbol. What I'm taking about here are symbols about which I have good reasons to think that they are national only. A few examples:

- ID15d: land belonging to the Conservatoire du littoral (coastal protection agency);
- ID15e: information point related to an Espace naturel sensible;
- ID15f: site provided with the Grand site de France;
- ID15a6: regional natural park of Camargue.

These are areas/features created through national law, or designated by national authorities, which grant these areas the status represented by the symbol. This status has a specific meaning (for instance, Espace naturel sensible is for sensible natural features which are created and protected by the French départements in order to protect outstanding habitats; as for museums, only some museums may receive this label, as long as they match the label criteria and accept the label and its commitments, which may perfectly not be the case).

Maybe some of these ideograms have international equivalents; I'll only be sure by checking them one by one and there are a few (https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id%C3%A9ogramme_routier_en_France). My question was of general order: when, after verification, I'm unable to find international equivalents to the features represented by the symbol, which value should I propose/document? I intend to create a documentation for these symbols, precisely to not obtain 77237373737 different values by letting each mapper choose his/her own value, which is more likely to happen if no list of corresponding destination:symbol values is documented.

As for using English, I'm not opposed, but find it weird to use an English value for a France-specific feature, especially if I use some sort of FR:xyz value.

Regards.

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------- Original Message -------
Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <tagging at openstreetmap.org> schrieb am Montag, 21. Februar 2022 um 07:39:

> FR:site_classé is also a quite bad idea, tags should be in English unless absolutely impossible.
>
> Stronger protection for historic monuments in France than elsewhere is not a good
> reason to invent a new tag name.
>
> motorways also differ between countries in many aspects, but we do not have
> PL:autostrada and FR:autoroute as destination:symbol values.
>
>> Musée de France
>
> If I understand right the autotranslation of
> https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mus%C3%A9e_de_France
> then it is museum, right? Are there also separate destination signs for lesser museums?
>
> (and if there are some subtypes then I would use destination:symbol with museum
> as value and destination:symbol:detailed for extra classification)
>
> Having 77237373737 super-specific values (like PL:szlak_architektury_drewnianej or
> royal_castle_in_Kraków-Częstochowa_Upland or
> motorway_symbol_but_with_corner_damaged or motorway_symbol_2000s_sign_model
> based on ones that I have seen recently)
> would just ensure that this data would be impossible to actually use.
>
> Feb 21, 2022, 07:05 by tagging at openstreetmap.org:
>
>> But the meaning is often country-specific: « site inscrit/site classé », for instance, are a french classification of monuments which gives specific, increasingly stronger protection for the monument and its surroundings. And what about « Musée de France »?
>>
>> Yes, using such an ID would be a bit cryptic, but given the issues I explained in my first email, I see no better solution. Or would simply FR:site_classé do the thing?
>>
>> Regards.
>>
>> Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com/) Secure Email.
>>
>> ------- Original Message -------
>> Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging <tagging at openstreetmap.org> schrieb am Montag, 21. Februar 2022 um 05:07:
>>
>>> destination:symbol with value ID16a suffers from being some weird code
>>>
>>> Note currently used ones: https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/destination%3Asymbol#values
>>>
>>> Is it really impossible to use something like historic_monument ?
>>> Or "historic" which is already in use?
>>>
>>> Many countries have some symbol for historic monument, there is really
>>> no need to have separate value for symbol in each country or region.
>>>
>>> Feb 20, 2022, 14:59 by tagging at openstreetmap.org:
>>>
>>>> Hello, there.
>>>>
>>>> I mapped many destination signs, with symbols and all, but I occasionally encounter country-specific symbols (many examples here: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id%C3%A9ogramme_routier_en_France). I could of course create new destination:symbol=* values for such symbols, but many of them are country specific, such as the ID15/ID16 series, and creating undocumented, unilateral values disturbs me; I know that I can act so, according to the "Any tag you like principle", but I'm reluctant to do so, because I feel that undocumented/unilateral values are much less susceptible to be used/rendered, and what would be the point of using values for them to be useless?
>>>>
>>>> Besides, given the descriptions of these symbols, giving them an unambiguous destination:symbol=* value would likely produce rather long values; should a destination:symbol=* key contain several semicolon-separated such values, I'm afraid to quickly reach the 255 characters limit for an OSM tag value. In such cases, is it acceptable to simply use the ref of the symbol within a country-specific namespace?
>>>>
>>>> For instance, mapping the symbol visible on the signs of the right-turning road (https://www.mapillary.com/app/?pKey=261676592312309) would give the following: destination:symbol=;;;FR:ID16a
>>>>
>>>> Would this solution be acceptable/advisable? In this case, do I need to fill a Wiki proposal, or is a link to this thread acceptable to promote this possibility on the destination:symbol wiki page?
>>>>
>>>> Awaiting your answers,
>>>>
>>>> Regards.
>>>>
>>>> Sent with [ProtonMail](https://protonmail.com/) Secure Email.
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