[Tagging] River crossing grade

[Timothy Noname]

I think it's far more likely we can clarify existing "fords" with a new tag
than get everyone to change the existing fords.

A data used who sees a fords without a grading will know that it is vague
and may not even be a real ford. If the grade is present they know exactly
what it is.
If we introduce a new tag for "fords" that aren't real fords, eg
crossing=stepping_stones, data users will never know whether ford=yes is a
real ford or not.

Something also needs to be done for cars, I know fords that are passable by
any car at low tide and some that are only passable by large 4x4s. This
could be inferred from the depth of the ford and the surface of the road
but IMO would be better tagged explicitly.

On Wed, 26 Jan 2022, 17:13 Zeke Farwell, <ezekielf at gmail.com> wrote:

> A ford is a shallow place in a waterway where one can wade or drive
> through the water.  You will get wet at a ford.  It's not really a ford if
> the stream is so narrow that you can jump across, or so shallow that you
> can walk on stones above the water and your feet barely get wet.  It's also
> not really a ford if the water is so deep that your feet can't touch the
> bottom and you have to swim across.
>
> The osm key "ford" seems to be taking on a wider meaning than the English
> word "ford".  ford=stepping_stones describes something that I would not
> consider a ford.  The wiki also documents ford=boat which sounds very
> strange to me as a native English speaker.  A ford is a place where you
> specifically do not use a boat.  If a boat is used, that is called a ferry.
>
> Rather than overloading the ford key, I suggest we create different tags
> for very narrow/shallow crossing places, and minor ferry boat crossing.
> Neither of these are really fords.  If this is done I think there is much
> less need for a crossing grade scale.
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 26, 2022 at 11:51 AM Volker Schmidt <voschix at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Please do not introduce another grade scale - already enough trouble with
>> track grades.
>>
>> Some immediate problems:
>>
>> a river crossing where your body normally gets wet or you have to swim or
>> to take a boat is not a ford.
>> (The wiki page key=ford shows as option ford=boat)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> On Wed, 26 Jan 2022 at 16:03, Timothy Noname <hervbeof at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I think depth and width are too difficult for the average mapper to
>>> determine and would be difficult for users to interpret.
>>>
>>> I agree that some sort of tag is needed to describe the ease of
>>> crossing.
>>> I see fords on OSM footpaths all the time and have no idea if they are a
>>> potential obstacle or not. Most of them are very easy to just step over,
>>> some require waterproof boots, some the water might come up to your knees.
>>> Some are also tidal and the variance is huge.
>>>
>>>
>>> I would suggest some possible values:
>>> step_over, very_shallow (trainers ok), shallow (waterproof boots
>>> needed), wade, swim, difficult_swim
>>>
>>> Tag name something like
>>> foot_crossing_grade
>>> foot_crossing_grade:min
>>> foot_crossing_grade:max
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, 26 Jan 2022, 11:29 Martin Koppenhoefer, <dieterdreist at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Am Mi., 26. Jan. 2022 um 12:21 Uhr schrieb John Sturdy <
>>>> jcg.sturdy at gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>>> And if we do want to repeat that (and I agree with Mateusz, that we
>>>>> probably shouldn't) we should probably make it 1--5 rather than 0--4, for
>>>>> consistency.
>>>>>
>>>>> How about giving the typical depth of the crossing in metres?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "depth" is used together with "ford":
>>>> https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/ford#combinations
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Martin
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