[Tagging] River crossing grade

Thu Jan 27 16:48:08 UTC 2022

You mean like a self service ferry where you have to pull yourself across?
That does seem significantly different than a ferry

On Thu, 27 Jan 2022, 16:37 Sinus Pi, <sinus+osmtag at sinpi.net> wrote:

> > In terms of boat, shouldn't we just use the established tag of ferry?
>
> If it's a proper ferry, then obviously yes. What if it's a simple dinghy
> pulled manually to either bank with a rope or chain? Does it still qualify?
>
> On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 at 17:24, Philip Barnes <phil at trigpoint.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> In terms of boat, shouldn't we just use the established tag of ferry?
>>
>> Phil (trigpoint)
>>
>> On Thursday, 27 January 2022, Zeke Farwell wrote:
>> > Several definitions of the English word "ford":
>> > https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ford
>> > https://www.dictionary.com/browse/ford
>> > https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/ford
>> >
>> > Several mention "wading".  One mentions "not using a boat".  None
>> mention
>> > stepping over, jumping over, stepping stones, or dry streambeds.  Yes
>> OSM
>> > tags do diverge from English word meanings, but if we can avoid it
>> wouldn't
>> > that be preferable?  ford=stepping_stones has around 8000 uses and
>> > thankfully ford=boat has only around 50.  Doesn't seem too late to
>> change
>> > these.
>> > https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/ford#values
>> >
>> > My suggestion would be to introduce a new tag *water_crossing=yes* for a
>> > generic water crossing.  This could be used for any water crossing where
>> > the mapper does not know if it is a ford, a usually dry streambed, small
>> > enough to step across on stones, or some other kind of crossing.  This
>> key
>> > could then have more specific values to add more detail:
>> >
>> > water_crossing=ford
>> > water_crossing=stepping_stones
>> > water_crossing=step_over
>> > water_crossing=dry
>> > water_crossing=boat
>> >
>> > Since ford=yes has been (mis)used so heavily to mean any generic water
>> > crossing, we can say that ford=yes has the same meaning as
>> > water_crossing=yes.  Perhaps even with this more detailed scheme there
>> is
>> > still some desire to tag how wet you would get at a water_crossing=ford,
>> > but it would be limited to crossings where you *are* going to get wet.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jan 27, 2022 at 10:42 AM Sinus Pi <sinus+osmtag at sinpi.net>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > > Stepping stones are not a bridge
>> > >
>> > > So when does a structure built to facilitate dry-foot crossing become
>> a
>> > > bridge? I'm sure you'll agree that a plank thrown over a stream is a
>> > > bridge. A handful of sticks and logs thrown into the stream, like a
>> beaver
>> > > dam, surely comprises a makeshift bridge, does it not?
>> > >
>> > > On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 at 16:29, Philip Barnes <phil at trigpoint.me.uk>
>> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> On Thursday, 27 January 2022, Sinus Pi wrote:
>> > >> > How about a different approach to the stepping stones...
>> > >> >
>> > >> > What do you call a (usually, but not always) man-made structure
>> that
>> > >> allows
>> > >> > you to cross a waterway dry-footed? A bridge.
>> > >> > Is a plank thrown over a stream a bridge? Likely.
>> > >> > Is a log fallen over the river, now commonly used as a crossing, a
>> > >> bridge?
>> > >> > Kind of.
>> > >> > Is a stone chucked into the river a bridge? Well... why not?
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Hence: why not bridge=stepping_stones?
>> > >> > And leave ford=* for where the waterway cannot (usually) be crossed
>> > >> without
>> > >> > getting your feet wet?
>> > >>
>> > >> Stepping stones are not a bridge, any more than they are a ford,
>> although
>> > >> that has been in use a long time.
>> > >>
>> > >> Why not highway=stepping stones, in the same way we have
>> highway=steps.
>> > >>
>> > >> Both can only exist on a foot only way.
>> > >>
>> > >> In the case of stepping stones, they are often alongside an actual
>> ford
>> > >> for example https://www.geograph.org/photo/14321
>> > >>
>> > >> Phil (trigpoint)
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> > On Thu, 27 Jan 2022 at 14:43, Peter Elderson <pelderson at gmail.com>
>> > >> wrote:
>> > >> >
>> > >> > > I don't see much added value in this proposal.
>> > >> > > Boat is not applicable (not a ford), use ferry for that:
>> established
>> > >> > > tagging.
>> > >> > > Swimming, not a ford.
>> > >> > > Stepping stones, I think then it's still a ford; established
>> tagging.
>> > >> > > Add depth, width as needed. An estimate will suffice. Dry=0 cm,
>> > >> soles=5
>> > >> > > cm, ankle=10 cm, knee=0,5 m, wade=1 m.
>> > >> > > Intermittent, tidal: there is tagging for that.
>> > >> > > Construction key could help if you want to tag an artificial
>> ford.
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Peter Elderson
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > > Op wo 26 jan. 2022 om 11:59 schreef Andrew Harvey <
>> > >> > > andrew.harvey4 at gmail.com>:
>> > >> > >
>> > >> > >> I couldn't see anything on the wiki about river crossings grade
>> so I
>> > >> > >> started drafting a proposal
>> > >> > >>
>> > >> > >>
>> > >> > >>
>> > >>
>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Pedestrian_river_crossing
>> > >> > >>
>> > >> > >> Feedback or comments or help on it is most welcome.
>> > >> > >>
>> > >> > >> # Rational
>> > >> > >>
>> > >> > >> Particularly on hiking trails, the intersection of a
>> highway=footway
>> > >> or
>> > >> > >> highway=path and a waterway=* can be defined as either:
>> > >> > >>
>> > >> > >> - A bridge bridge=yes which allows you to walk over the
>> watercourse.
>> > >> > >> - A culvert tunnel=culvert which takes the water through a
>> tunnel
>> > >> > >> underneath the walking path.
>> > >> > >> - Stepping stones ford=stepping_stones which allow you to walk
>> > >> through
>> > >> > >> the watercourse without usually getting wet (unless the water
>> level
>> > >> is
>> > >> > >> higher than the stepping stones, this tag doesn't imply you'll
>> > >> always be
>> > >> > >> able to get across)
>> > >> > >> - A generic stream/river crossing ford=yes where your path
>> passes
>> > >> through
>> > >> > >> the watercourse.
>> > >> > >> In the last case of ford=yes it can be helpful to describe the
>> usual
>> > >> > >> condition of that stream/river crossing to help give consumers
>> an
>> > >> idea of
>> > >> > >> what they can generally expect.
>> > >> > >>
>> > >> > >> Mindful that conditions can change depending on upstream
>> rainfall,
>> > >> or it
>> > >> > >> could vary seasonally, but for places where it's usually
>> consistent,
>> > >> this
>> > >> > >> proposal proposes tagging it.
>> > >> > >>
>> > >> > >> # Proposed Tagging
>> > >> > >>
>> > >> > >> 0. creek/stream crossing where generally the creekbed is dry
>> and you
>> > >> > >> won't get wet.
>> > >> > >> 1: creek/stream crossing where generally the water level is so
>> low
>> > >> that
>> > >> > >> you won't have water ingress in your shoes
>> > >> > >> 2: creek/stream crossing where your body will stay dry but
>> you'll
>> > >> want to
>> > >> > >> take your shoes off if you prefer to keep them dry
>> > >> > >> 3: river crossing where your body will get wet, may have a rope
>> to
>> > >> help
>> > >> > >> you cross, but you can wade through the water and won't usually
>> need
>> > >> to swim
>> > >> > >> 4: river crossing where you'll need to swim across
>> > >> > >>
>> > >> > >> _______________________________________________
>> > >> > >> Tagging mailing list
>> > >> > >> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
>> > >> > >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>> > >> > >>
>> > >> > > _______________________________________________
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>> > >> > >
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> > >> --
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>>
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