[Tagging] Feature Proposal - RFC - highway=scramble

[martianfreeloader]

I am a hiker and a climber, but I made experiences similar to Peter's on 
more than one occasion. I have been led along ways by osmand which were 
mapped as highway=path; obviously by other climbers. They were 
definitely not suitable for folks without climbing experience that want 
to go on a physically demanding hike, but don't want to die.

Imo, scramble would not only include via ferrata. There are many 
paths/scrambles where via ferrata equipment is useless, but where you 
will still very much need your hands and in many cases risk serious 
injury or death if you fall. Yet, these kind of paths/scrambles are 
often not considered "real climbing" in the narrower sense (mountaineers 
would usually still go without rope).

On 15/09/2022 00:03, Peter Elderson wrote:
> I am a hiker, not a climber. I remember lots of sections I would have avoided if the map had shown them as scrambles. More adventurous people probably would seek them out. I like this proposed highway value. I would probably apply it to the actual scramble sections, though, not including path sections leading up to the scramble part. Renderers can then show the actual scramble sections. For routers, it doesn't really matter, because when a section of a path is a scramble and you use say a no scramble profile, the route over the path will get high penalty and will not gain preference.
> 
> If a sign says a path will make you scamble somewhere, map the sign and the actual scramble(s), that's what I would do.
> 
> Peter Elderson
> 
>> Op 14 sep. 2022 om 23:47 heeft martianfreeloader <martianfreeloader at posteo.net> het volgende geschreven:
>>
>> In the real world, you will *always* find borderline cases for *any* property.
>>
>> I don't think it should be an argument against a good proposal. If it were, then it could be used against literally *any* tag on osm. (and funnily it reliably does come up with any new proposal)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 14/09/2022 22:59, Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging wrote:
>>> The main problem here is that different people will need (or do not need) to use hands,
>>> it also heavily depends on weather and other considtion
>>> How we would deal with such borderline cases?
>>> via ferrata value is far more likely to succeed and I would recommend trying to get it first
>>> Sep 14, 2022, 11:42 by hungerburg at gmail.com:
>>>     It is proposed to create the tag highway=scramble as a base tag for
>>>     hiking paths, where use of hands is required, be that for keeping
>>>     balance or be it for pulling up.
>>>     Please discuss this proposal on its Wiki Talk page,
>>>     https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/highway%3Dscramble
>>>     <https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Talk:Proposed_features/highway%3Dscramble>
>>>     Thank you in advance
>>>     Asa
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Tagging mailing list
>>> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tagging mailing list
>> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Tagging mailing list
> Tagging at openstreetmap.org
> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging