[Tagging] [RFC] Feature Proposal - Cell Phone Reception

Tue Aug 8 00:13:39 UTC 2023

OP here. While there has been an overwhelming amount of feedback (or criticism) for the proposal. I'd like to discuss thoughts and changes to the proposal based on this discussion and that on the community forum (https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/rfc-feature-proposal-cell-phone-reception/102131).

There seems to be a separation between those who largely disagree with any mapping of such features within the OSM community and those that find value and the possibility of inclusion. The following key highlights of the revised proposal hopes to find a middle ground in the realm of realistic to map while also providing user benefit.

- The initial limitation of tag usage within the following recreational POIs only: tourism=campsite, highway=trailhead, information=visitor_centre, and tourism=camp_pitch.
- The reduction of tag values to only yes, limited, and no.
- The reduction of additional tagging models to only strength with excellent/good/low/issues/none options.
- The indication that verification should be done outdoors

I believe this should address some concerns and anxiety members had about the ability to properly maintain the tags into the future as well as the verifiability of such tags.

------- Original Message -------
On Monday, August 7th, 2023 at 7:06 PM, Colin Smale - colin.smale(a)xs4all.nl <colin_smale_at_xs4all_nl_idksm at simplelogin.co> wrote:

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> Also true but no need for the "quotes". Mountain rescue teams don't just need to call 112/999. And although you can often make an emergency call without a SIM (I believe this does not actually work in the UK) nobody can call you unless you are registered and authorised on a network.
>
> On 7 August 2023 20:24:30 BST, bkil <bkil.hu+Aq at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Just a note about your "fact": your phone can roam to any available
>>
>> network when you are dialing the emergency number. You can even dial
>>
>> it without a SIM inserted in most countries. Hence why it displays the
>>
>> text "emergency calls only" in such cases. Circuits towards the
>>
>> emergency number are also much higher prioritized, so when the line
>>
>> seems busy otherwise or produces unusable quality and drop-outs,
>>
>> emergency calls will still be more usable (with sufficient coverage of
>>
>> course).
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2023 at 9:03 PM Colin Smale <colin.smale at xs4all.nl> wrote:
>>
>>> Two users on the same network standing next to each other can get different results. They may be connected to different base stations. CDMA is a whole other can of worms.
>>>
>>> There are so many variables, it's impossible to give detailed data for "cell phone reception at location X". But the original intention of the proposal was limited to campsites and a couple of other specific categories of place, which are often out in the sticks with no coverage. and I can see why it might be useful to have some kind of indication whether you can expect any kind of usable coverage at these locations. This would need to be specific about network, service provider (MVNO) and frequency band at least to be useful.
>>>
>>> Some networks allow voice-over-wifi. This might be a useful thing to record - if the location operator provides wifi, you may be able to use "WiFi Calling" even if the cellular coverage is dodgy.
>>>
>>> Interesting fact: Mountain rescue organisations often use SIMs from a different country, which are free to roam onto any network with a tiny bit of signal. If you are in your home state you will probably be locked to a specific network.
>>>
>>> On 07/08/2023 01:55 BST Mike Thompson <miketho16 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 6, 2023 at 6:39 PM Evan Carroll <me at evancarroll.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> While I don't disagree, that's not an argument for OSM. OSM's job isn't to mitigate real world safety issues caused by technology. It's to map generally useful geographically verifiable things.
>>>
>>> I don't understand how cell coverage isn't verifiable - visit the site (e.g. campground) in question, pull out your phone, note how many bars, try to make a call, send a text, use some data (perhaps run a speed test). Yes, it is only good for your carrier, but the carrier should be recorded. Yes, there could be network congestion, or a tower could be out, but we map roads, and they can be congested, or closed due to accidents, flooding, landslides, construction, etc.  In some way, this is getting back to our roots, actually getting out and surveying, rather than just relying on satellite/aerial imagery.
>>>
>>> Mike
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