[Tagging] Help with new tags about wheelchair
robin at onwheelsapp.com
robin at onwheelsapp.com
Sun May 7 19:56:22 UTC 2023
Hi everyone,
Thank you allready for all the input. Special thanks to Marc and Jez for
their suggestions and questions. I would like to clear up some things:
We have been in contact with Wheelmap. They are using the tag
wheelchair=yes/no, but with On Wheels we have a different approach.
We measure objective data about the entrance and toilet of a building.
Wheelchair users can set a personal profile in our app to indicate
what the dimension is of their wheelchair and the kerb height they can
cross. This way the user decides for themselves what accessible is.
Just adding a wheelchair=yes/no tag to an entrance or toilet is not enough.
Everyone wheelchair user has different dimensions and possibilities.
Even toilets and parking spaces that are marked as wheelchair accessible are
not accessible for everyone. We also believe that our data about
dimension of entrances, parking places, toilets and elevators could be
interesting for other applications.
We know it is a long list of new tags. What is the best way to make it more
easy to discuss? I make an email with all new tag suggestions organized
into groups (entrance, parking, toilet, elevator, ...) or an email per group
of tag questions. So one for entrance, one for toilet, .... ?
Met vriendelijke groeten
Robin Julien
Operationeel verantwoordelijke, architect
robin at onwheelsapp.com tel: 0497 65 48 50
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 4 May 2023 10:31:56 +0100
From: Jez Nicholson <jez.nicholson at gmail.com>
To: "Tag discussion, strategy and related tools"
<tagging at openstreetmap.org>
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Help with new tags about wheelchair
accessibility for On Wheels app
Message-ID:
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Hi Robin,
Are you in communication with WheelApp? Obviously they don't have an
exclusive on wheelchair mapping, but they will have a lot of experience with
OSM accessibility tagging and might be able to help. There may be a niche
Discord channel or something about it.
- Jez
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 3 May 2023 10:22:46 +0200
From: Marc_marc <marc_marc at mailo.com>
To: tagging at openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Tagging] Help with new tags about wheelchair
accessibility for On Wheels app
Message-ID: <3d8edb3d-e8f4-2a79-b33f-bf12759ba95e at mailo.com>
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Hello,
Le 02.05.23 ? 17:34, robin at onwheelsapp.com a ?crit?:
> We want to add these tags:
I find the list too big to digest in one go, so I'll note a few tags
that seem clearly ok
and some tags that clearly don't seem ok
the others, between the 2, deserve in my opinion to be treated
out of this mass to avoid to avoid having too long discussions
on too many tags in a single subject, which may make it indigestible
> * entrance:ramp:wheelchair?????????? ?????????????? (for a ramp at the
> entrance)
I find this tag too specific: the ramp can often be used by old people,
parents with a baby carriage, a person with difficulty walking or even
by a person with no difficulty
there is the entrance:ramp tag which combined with wheelchair describes
in my opinion the accessibility well without having to describe the same
object with at least 4 different tags
> * parking:sensor_ID??????????? ?????????????? ?????????????? (for the
> ID of a IOT Communithings sensor in a parking place)
if it's the ref of something, use ref:*, maybe ref:parking:sensor_ID
or ref:sensor_ID on the amenity=parking
it would be very useful to make a documentation page on what it is,
how to get it, how a contributor who is not a wheelchair user can
detect it, so that there can be other users than those of your app
> * entrance:kerb:height???????????????????? ?????????????? (for the
> height of the kerb at the entrance)
ok (in meter or add unit for ex 5 cm)
> * entrance:door:width?????? ?????????????? ?????????????? (for the
> door width of the entrance)
why not entrance:width ? (entrance without door exist,
for ex when the door itself is not at the building outer
but after an covered area
sometimes it's not a door but a bay, overspecific tag
seems uninteresting to me for the datause
> * entrance:step_count?????? ?????????????? ?????????????? (for the
> number of steps at the entrance)
ok (i'm using it myself :) with entrance:step:height
> * entrance:turn_point??????? ?????????????? ?????????????? (for free
> space to turn at both sides of the entrance)
if the space is not enought, isn't it better to put entrance:wheelchair=no?
> * atm:wheelchair??????????????? ?????????????? ?????????????? (for
> wheelchair accessible yes or no)
ok but I prefer to create an object amenity=atm + wheelchair=*
> * reception_desk:wheelchair????????? ?????????????? (for wheelchair
> accessible yes or no)
ok
> * toilets:wheelchair
no need to ask, it's an in use tag :)
> * toilets:wheelchair:accessible_by?????????????? (to indicate if a
> wheelchair toilet is accessible by stairs, lift or groundfloor)
groundfloor -> level=0
I don't really understand the need to describe the pathway and above
all I fear that it will end up adding accessible_by everywhere (how
accessible is the parking ? how accessible is the shop ? ) which on
their own don't mean anything (toilets on the ground floor can be
wheelchair=no, accessible_by=stairs can be wheelchair=yes if the
staircase has a motorized wheelchair platform.
> * toilets:accessible_by??????????????????????????????????? (to
> indicate if a normal toilet is accessible by stairs, lift or
> groundfloor)
same as before
> * toilets:wheelchair:space_side??????????????????? (for the free space
> on the side of the toilet)
> * toilets:wheelchair:space_front????????????????? (for the free space
> in front of the toilet)
toilets:wheelchair is not sufficient ?
when does a user need to know all these details?
I would have thought that what interests him is to know if in
the end it is accessible or not or is the goal to make a detailed
inventory of ok and not ok points?
> * toilets:wheelchair:handrails?????????????????????? (for the number
> of handrails)
are you talking about a handrail like on the stairs
or a bar located in the toilet allowing you to lean on
to lift yourself between the chair and the toilet bowl?
I fear a confusion of terms when the toilet has a staircase
to get there. another term seems more appropriate to me
> * toilets:wheelchair:door_width?????????????????? (for the door width
> of the toilet)
toilets:wheelchair:door:width but as before, i don't
see the usecase
> * toilets:wheelchair:narrowest_point_from_entrance
> (to indicate the narrowest point from the entrance
> to the toilet)
osm is a geospatial database, adding tags describing
the positioning between objects doesn't seem like a good
idea to me (in the past, some have added tags to describe
the nearest bus stop to a park, the nearest address to
a bike station,
it's potentially endless and without real added value,
even if it's indoor, nothing prevents you from doing a highway=path
indoor=yes connecting the object to its door, while waiting
for an indoor mappinng
> * elevator:width?????????????????????????????????????????????? (for
> the width of the elevator)
> * elevator:depth?????????????????????????????????????????????? (for
> the depth of the elevator)
> * elevator:door:width????????????????????????????????????? (for the
> door width of the elevator)
ok for the tag but what's the usecase ?
is it used by your users to know if it is 1m or 1m05?
or is it just useful to know if it usable ?
another alternative is to add an elevator object and add
the information about it without namespace or by its geometry
> * wheelchair:description??????????????????????????????? (extra notes
> about accessibility, used by Wheelmap)
no need to ask, it's an in use tag :)
> * amenity=changing_places?????????????????????????? (for a changing
> place: https://www.changing-places.org/
> <https://www.changing-places.org/>)
> * changing_table:adult??????????????????????????????????? (for a
> changing table for adults)
> * changing_table:adjustable_height??????????? (if the changing table
> has an adjustable height)
> * changing_table:hoist??????????????????????????????????? (ceiling
> track hoist for people)
I think this deserves a dedicated topic
see diaper=* changing_table=* talk about the adult use.
Regards,
Marc
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