[Tagging] Highway classification in Antarctica

Sun Apr 28 23:09:38 UTC 2024

I think is much more simpler than said you. Related to King George Island:

Firstly, the unclassified value is used also to linking with hamlets according Key:highway. Due the settlements of Fildes Peninsula are in the lowet limit of hamlet/village (supposing these are the correct values), then is easily to discard tertiary value.

Next, the wiki suggest to choose unclassified than tertiary for quieter linking roads. Until the moment, most people agree the all roads of Fildes Peninsula are quieter, then another reason to discard tertiary value.

Tertiary inside urban context that cited by you, refers explicitly to bigger settlements. This does not meaning you need to linking all relevant POIs with a tertiary, but they can be found typically in streets with tertiary or higher classification. Further, in Villa Las Estrellas de most of POIs are only accessible by footways.

Fildes Peninsula have only near 100 inhabitants. There is no a practical difference if the other research stations are joined with Villa Las Estrellas or a little further.

I think this is the most common interpretation for Fildes Peninsula, used also by the people who gave their opinion outside the mailing list. Your approach are too relativistic.

Regards.

________________________________
De: Fernando Trebien <fernando.trebien at gmail.com>
Enviado: domingo, 28 de abril de 2024 16:44
Para: Tag discussion, strategy and related tools <tagging at openstreetmap.org>
Asunto: Re: [Tagging] Highway classification in Antarctica

On Sun, 28 Apr 2024 at 02:13, Juan Pablo Tolosa Sanzana
<jptolosanzana at outlook.cl> wrote:
> I do not understand your petition

Put concretely:

1. Are Villa Las Estrellas, Bellingshausen Station, Great Wall Station
and Artigas Base considered settlements in OSM? Should they be
considered to have population=0?

2. If they are settlements, should they be mapped as place=hamlet
according to the definitions in the wiki?

3. If they are hamlets, shouldn't the main routes connecting them be
mapped as highway=tertiary, based on the definitions in the wiki? [1]

3.1. Is a minimum road length required, or is it sufficient that the
settlements are disjoint?

4. Shouldn't roads on the Fildes Peninsula be given a higher
classification if they serve important regional functions, similar to
how roads in other sparsely populated regions are being classified in
practice? The wiki says that the physical characteristics of different
types of highway=* can vary drastically between different regions of
the planet, and that one should assign highway=trunk to the road of
highest importance in a region, does this sort of adjustment only
apply to the highest highway levels (highway=trunk and
highway=primary)?

5. Considering the importance of the South Pole Traverse, shouldn't it
be highway=secondary or higher if it is the most important regional
route of the whole continent? What factors justify a lower
classification: poor infrastructure, harsh conditions, low population,
settlement type (value of place=*), or some other reason?

For point #5, maybe the South Pole Traverse can be compared to the
Tibbitt to Contwoyto Winter Road in Canada,[1] which is mapped as
highway=secondary despite having no nearby settlements apart from the
small MacKay Lake Lodge midway. It is the longest ice road in the
world, covering about 500 km connecting Yellowknife to some diamond
mines every winter for two months, 85% of the route is on frozen
lakes. If highway=secondary is appropriate in this case, why shouldn't
it be for the South Pole Traverse?

For point #4, I found several practical examples from regions like
Norway, Iceland and Canada, where small villages with very low
population counts are served by highway=secondary or highway=primary.
I'm sharing these below as they were only discussed in changeset
comments:

- In Norway: Gamvik and Fredvang are small villages of about 200
people served by highway=secondary
- In Iceland: Flateyri and Tálknafjörður are small villages of about
220 people served by highway=primary, and Hjalteyri is a hamlet of 37
people served by highway=secondary
- In the Faroe Islands: Tjørnuvík and Kunoy are small villages of
about 65 people served by highway=secondary
- In Canada: Whatì and Tulita are villages of about 500 people served
by highway=secondary and highway=primary respectively
- In Alaska: Eagle is a small village of 145 people served by
highway=primary and Teller is village of 268 people served by
highway=secondary
- In Russia: Varzuga is a village of 350 people and Yamburg is a small
village of 100, both served by highway=secondary

Gamvik: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2F%3Fmlat%3D71.0537%26mlon%3D28.23607&data=05%7C02%7C%7C816a6222ed7b4082759b08dc67c48821%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638499340995177938%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=8nHl2sJQ1UgQpTH2WmxwZX4xs4LywZOJgUrOBRE4RaI%3D&reserved=0<https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=71.0537&mlon=28.23607>
Fredvang: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2F%3Fmlat%3D68.08712%26mlon%3D13.17875&data=05%7C02%7C%7C816a6222ed7b4082759b08dc67c48821%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638499340995186246%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=E5la6CIGbORYGjDdH5mWUK5KS%2FpyVKBtcgAEhcMfz2k%3D&reserved=0<https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=68.08712&mlon=13.17875>
Tjørnuvík: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2F%3Fmlat%3D62.29492%26mlon%3D-7.13323&data=05%7C02%7C%7C816a6222ed7b4082759b08dc67c48821%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638499340995190369%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=KYe3sN29jXZyMLiXwIwVMdUrC%2FhpTvkESZntZZz28BI%3D&reserved=0<https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=62.29492&mlon=-7.13323>
Kunoy: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2F%3Fmlat%3D62.27242%26mlon%3D-6.658&data=05%7C02%7C%7C816a6222ed7b4082759b08dc67c48821%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638499340995194268%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=0jB7mNZJUUewieV%2FYvfvolRidzHbTT2fhL8aaxh3%2BMk%3D&reserved=0<https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=62.27242&mlon=-6.658>
Flateyri: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2F%3Fmlat%3D66.05183%26mlon%3D-23.49581&data=05%7C02%7C%7C816a6222ed7b4082759b08dc67c48821%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638499340995198878%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=l3b6TYL2C5JgU4sVtC%2FT8Z91FmQ4exQn6UT1Xud9KAo%3D&reserved=0<https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=66.05183&mlon=-23.49581>
Tálknafjörður: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2F%3Fmlat%3D65.6223%26mlon%3D-23.8094&data=05%7C02%7C%7C816a6222ed7b4082759b08dc67c48821%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638499340995202798%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2Fvg01vHEglXTavqmZoxkr4JnKnZdvl7EuhDltbRs20Y%3D&reserved=0<https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=65.6223&mlon=-23.8094>
Hjalteyri: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2F%3Fmlat%3D65.84449%26mlon%3D-18.20756%23map%3D14%2F65.8445%2F-18.2076&data=05%7C02%7C%7C816a6222ed7b4082759b08dc67c48821%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638499340995206356%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=dmPVyM5MnhL71NzrVq8FeN2K%2FGFsQpLLGGeaJlK7RHY%3D&reserved=0<https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=65.84449&mlon=-18.20756#map=14/65.8445/-18.2076>
Whatì: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2F%3Fmlat%3D63.16285%26mlon%3D-117.20541&data=05%7C02%7C%7C816a6222ed7b4082759b08dc67c48821%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638499340995209954%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=g1910nDVlb8KNBytYd9o5Iz%2BjOUDz3CTDDhJPfZy4p8%3D&reserved=0<https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=63.16285&mlon=-117.20541>
Tulita:  https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2F%3Fmlat%3D64.90425%26mlon%3D-125.51506&data=05%7C02%7C%7C816a6222ed7b4082759b08dc67c48821%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638499340995213443%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=w7sC53WbUcBEPNb6sY8GE39ijODhYzowyk9Oiyu65D8%3D&reserved=0<https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=64.90425&mlon=-125.51506>
Eagle: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2F%3Fmlat%3D64.77738%26mlon%3D-141.23274&data=05%7C02%7C%7C816a6222ed7b4082759b08dc67c48821%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638499340995216937%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=LbkAqo4cv89AnEaU51hNVHydQOjDCzjcRskcR8D2ufE%3D&reserved=0<https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=64.77738&mlon=-141.23274>
Teller: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2F%3Fmlat%3D65.24609%26mlon%3D-166.30883&data=05%7C02%7C%7C816a6222ed7b4082759b08dc67c48821%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638499340995220416%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=8qAAfovauNpztW%2FVGk6FtCACavq2%2BTrQyN6MrIYEEDk%3D&reserved=0<https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=65.24609&mlon=-166.30883>
Varzuga: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2F%3Fmlat%3D66.38174%26mlon%3D36.61092&data=05%7C02%7C%7C816a6222ed7b4082759b08dc67c48821%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638499340995223992%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=wLW1D7IKSqkNWNw3vNHeWBLNZvENvoYAXF2nvg0TLFU%3D&reserved=0<https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=66.38174&mlon=36.61092>
Yamburg: https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2F%3Fmlat%3D67.91871%26mlon%3D74.97052&data=05%7C02%7C%7C816a6222ed7b4082759b08dc67c48821%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638499340995227520%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=PWjjQ1fAQCNgTviBmTC2RxZyAZsRynT0TdXDMbMzn5k%3D&reserved=0<https://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=67.91871&mlon=74.97052>

[1] https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.openstreetmap.org%2Frelation%2F10078630&data=05%7C02%7C%7C816a6222ed7b4082759b08dc67c48821%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638499340995231029%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=%2BSvostQMTP8YPIOGXoDEJm1zIp2ZDbF6utfJy%2B9cOxY%3D&reserved=0<https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/10078630>

--
Fernando Trebien

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