[Tagging] Deprecate ref=* on ways

[Jorge Aguirre]

Oops! - I suddenly found myself barking up the wrong tree - and now that it's all cleared up, it seems there wasn’t even a tree there - nor the need to go out barking!

Sorry my fellow OSM editors, my bad... 


> On Jun 3, 2025, at 5:42 PM, Jorge Aguirre <jorge.aguirre at kaart.com> wrote:
> 
> The `ref=*` tag is an identification number that is assigned to any given road since it’s being created by the local governments. The "official meaning” of a `ref=*` is: the road built from 'point A' to 'point B’ and this is how they are formally identified by the government entities and even the everyday users. The `ref=*` also may help identify a main primary road from secondary or other minor roads, based on this denomination alone.
> 
> This remains true even in the US, where roads carry a `ref=*` that identifies them. I lived some time in Houston, Texas while attending college, where there was a “Katy Freeway” which was its “in-town” name, but remaining a part of the `ref=I-10`. I-10 aka Interstate 10 runs East to West, coast to coast, from Florida to California, crossing through all the Southern states in between. Every Interstate Highway in the US has a `ref=*`. And it is no secret that all Interstate Highways which `ref=*` numbers ends with a “0” run North to South, while all Interstate Highways which `ref=*` numbers ends with a “5” run East to West.
> 
> Years later, after traveling around the world to almost all continents, the `ref=*` is something actually seen on many roads in most countries (I do not recall anywhere in particular in which there were no `ref=*` seen on road signs. Many countries actually refer to the roads by their `ref=*` only, and may not necessarily carry any other given name.  In real life, just by seeing the `ref=*` sign pop-up on the map also helps to quickly find the road to follow, without having to rely on a relation to find the specific route being followed when crossing through cities or towns, where the roads carry other “in-town” names. Relations on OSM tend to be frequently broken, mostly unknowingly by editors who may have not even noticed their existence. For anyone driving while following a route from “point A” to “point B” having a segment of the route (ref=*) suddenly disappear due to some editor’s doings on a relation could cause much confusion at any moment, to say the least...
> 
> IMO, to deprecate this tag would cause more harm than any good. It’s a simple tag, easy to enter and easy to follow as it currently appears on OSM. I am opposed to this tag being deprecated from OSM. I do not see much benefit in doing so, but do see much harm.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Jun 2, 2025, at 4:58 PM, Paul Johnson <baloo at ursamundi.org> wrote:
>> 
>> On Mon, Jun 2, 2025 at 7:07 AM Greg Troxel <gdt at lexort.com <mailto:gdt at lexort.com>> wrote:
>>> António Madeira via Tagging <tagging at openstreetmap.org <mailto:tagging at openstreetmap.org>> writes:
>>> 
>>> > What I meant is that even if that "ref=49" is wrongly associated to
>>> 
>>> It does seem like someone is adding incorrect refs based on a
>>> misunderstanding, and it would be good to have that resolved.  People
>>> with strong opinions doing wrong things and the db ending up that way is
>>> an unfortunate part of OSM, but comes with the good parts of evolving
>>> tagging.
>> 
>> It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to start formally deprecating ref=* on ways.  Ref to describe routes on ways violates the "one object, one OSM entity guideline," and is one of the reasons relations were created as a primitive in OSM in the first place.  If the ref=* on ways dinosaur was allowed to die the death it should have 15 years ago.
>> 
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