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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hi Marc,<br>
      <br>
      Could you please forward/translate this reply to Michael and
      anyone who believe that Liège (and other places?) contain main
      road classification errors that produce bad routing.  One-way
      streets and the like will be another subject.<br>
      I suggested below to compare the OSM classification with that of
      Michelin.<br>
      Martin Koppenhoefer replied down below that Michael is wrong
      because "we" (they) "do more or less like Michelin". But he
      doesn't say if it is more or less and how much.<br>
      He asks "Where do you see differences?", meaning that he did not
      try to find them.<br>
      <br>
      Consequently, I have made my own <a
href="http://overpass-turbo.eu/?q=CltvdXQ6anNvbl1bdGltZcSCxIQ2MF07Ci8vIGdhdGhlciByZXN1bHRzCigKICDElyBxdcSeeSDEqiB3YXlbImhpZ2jEtnkiPSJtb3RvcsS_Il0oe3tiYm94fX0pxJXEq8S_xLnEu8S9xYnFgnByxI1hcsWAxYvFjcWPxZHFk8WVxLTFl8S3xZnEvMS-xLfFgSJzZWPEiGTFocWjxYzFjsWQxZLFlMSVxLTFmMS6xa7FnCJ0xJ7EjMW4xYrFusWmxb3FqcWrxLjGgsWbxbDFgnVuY2xhc3NpZmllZMaKxaXFvMWoxZbEtcWsxpHFr8WAxYLEocabZGVuxohsxqHFu8Wnxb7EtArFqcStxZ5pxrDEoMSixKTEpgrEkCDFkGR5xJU-xJXHg3NrZWzErnTFv8WNc3R5bGU6CsSWKkRlZmHHgCDFs3TEjG5ncyBmxYfGpnlzKi8KxL8ge8S0b3BhY2nHlTowLjXGpXdpZMScOjPGpcW1bMWHOmJsxLDGpX3HmsWYxZrGqT3FhMWGxYjEt13Hs8Wqx7bHuMe6ece8LjnIgMiCyIQ0yIdvyIlyOsShZMiPyJHFrMiTxL89xrttxbjImse0xKsgyJ3Huce7x73Io8aAyKVoOsinxLTIiMiKyK3Ir8exyLHGg8S3PcWzxbVuxbfFosi4yJzHt8i9yKDIv8ikyIPJg8mFxKvJh8ireceOyIl3yYrIksmNeT3GhnLGiMmUyJvIusi8yJ_IocmAxZfJgsmEyKjIqjrJomzJpMmmyYzGksmpxqzIgsavxrHJlcmwyZfJssmayYHJnMm3yYbIqciKZ8Shx4fEtMiQx5rHm0jFrmzFrnQgxJxlIMe4xIx2yp_HsmFmyasgxpdpY2vGvGfHr8mLyKDKoWnKo8mvxKvJsci-yKLJm8iEOMm4yYjGn8mKCsWT&c=BL83OJVENO&R">Michelin



        compatible overpass query</a> (thanks to the author of the
      original) that is using the same colors as Michelin (1).<br>
      <br>
      At <b>very first (short) sight</b>, I am surprised that Martin
      did not spot that the ref=N3 road that's going north-west is
      primary (in red) mostly but is interrupted by secondary segments
      (in yellow) <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/301189193#map=17/50.64889/5.55263">Rue

        de Hesbaye</a> and <a
        href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/237917909">Rue Eugène
        Houdret</a>.  As well as in <a
href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/368855374#map=18/50.63813/5.58499">Rue

        Louis Jamme</a> to connect <a
        href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/28611081">Place Delcour</a>
      to <a href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/28659889">primary
        N90</a> and <a
        href="http://www.openstreetmap.org/way/368855373">primary N610</a>
      (2). N610 should in theory be secondary but I completely agree
      with Michelin to make it debatable and make it primary like the
      Namur road should.<br>
      <br>
      I did not investigate further (I'm short sighted indeed) but I
      suggest that anyone contesting an OSM route compared it with the
      same routing by Michelin, tried to find an explanation by
      comparing <a
href="http://overpass-turbo.eu/?q=CltvdXQ6anNvbl1bdGltZcSCxIQ2MF07Ci8vIGdhdGhlciByZXN1bHRzCigKICDElyBxdcSeeSDEqiB3YXlbImhpZ2jEtnkiPSJtb3RvcsS_Il0oe3tiYm94fX0pxJXEq8S_xLnEu8S9xYnFgnByxI1hcsWAxYvFjcWPxZHFk8WVxLTFl8S3xZnEvMS-xLfFgSJzZWPEiGTFocWjxYzFjsWQxZLFlMSVxLTFmMS6xa7FnCJ0xJ7EjMW4xYrFusWmxb3FqcWrxLjGgsWbxbDFgnVuY2xhc3NpZmllZMaKxaXFvMWoxZbEtcWsxpHFr8WAxYLEocabZGVuxohsxqHFu8Wnxb7EtArFqcStxZ5pxrDEoMSixKTEpgrEkCDFkGR5xJU-xJXHg3NrZWzErnTFv8WNc3R5bGU6CsSWKkRlZmHHgCDFs3TEjG5ncyBmxYfGpnlzKi8KxL8ge8S0b3BhY2nHlTowLjXGpXdpZMScOjPGpcW1bMWHOmJsxLDGpX3HmsWYxZrGqT3FhMWGxYjEt13Hs8Wqx7bHuMe6ece8LjnIgMiCyIQ0yIdvyIlyOsShZMiPyJHFrMiTxL89xrttxbjImse0xKsgyJ3Huce7x73Io8aAyKVoOsinxLTIiMiKyK3Ir8exyLHGg8S3PcWzxbVuxbfFosi4yJzHt8i9yKDIv8ikyIPJg8mFxKvJh8ireceOyIl3yYrIksmNeT3GhnLGiMmUyJvIusi8yJ_IocmAxZfJgsmEyKjIqjrJomzJpMmmyYzGksmpxqzIgsavxrHJlcmwyZfJssmayYHJnMm3yYbIqciKZ8Shx4fEtMiQx5rHm0jFrmzFrnQgxJxlIMe4xIx2yp_HsmFmyasgxpdpY2vGvGfHr8mLyKDKoWnKo8mvxKvJsci-yKLJm8iEOMm4yYjGn8mKCsWT&c=BL83OJVENO&R">my

        overpass</a> with <a
href="https://fr.viamichelin.be/web/Cartes-plans/Carte_plan-Liege-_-Liege-Belgique?">the

        Michelin map</a> (my "Michelin info" message helps the wise JOSM
      users too), and asked people with local knowledge if they know
      better than Michelin.<br>
      <br>
      Last point is what source:???=Michelin ??? to use to prevent a
      StijnRR or like arbitrarily destructing well thought out tagging
      without notifying the author. I suggest source:highway=<a
        class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
        href="https://viamichelin.be/web/Cartes-plans"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://viamichelin.be/web/Cartes-plans">https://viamichelin.be/web/Cartes-plans</a></a>
      2016 2016.<br>
      <br>
      Kéne afêre à Lîdje and I hope that this work will be useful
      elsewhere too,<br>
      <br>
      Cheers <br>
      <br>
      <table>
        <tbody>
          <tr>
            <td>André.</td>
          </tr>
        </tbody>
      </table>
      <br>
      (1) As white would not fit for residential, I used grey.  I'm
      surprised indeed that no unclassified roads turn up in blue but
      that doesn't affect routing.<br>
      (2) why the heck do those people adore splitting?<br>
      <br>
      On 2016-09-15 17:02, André Pirard wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:57DAB814.9050309@gmail.com" type="cite">
      <meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
      <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2016-09-13 18:21, Marc Gemis
        wrote:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote
cite="mid:CAJKJX-QxFvtPk98BOGtqPkH2tSzeHod9b9_4TNVNTzBX=GH43A@mail.gmail.com"
        type="cite">
        <pre wrap="">Hallo,

I was contacted by a mapper from Germany with whom I worked on turn:lanes.
He has to following question, can someone with local knowledge inform
us about the road classifications ? I have the impression a lot of
streets are indeed residential. Feel free to reply in French, I'll
translate it to English for him.


[snipped]
Now I want ask you about another problem.
Coming from here
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://forum.mapfactor.com/discussion/comment/13515#Comment_13515">http://forum.mapfactor.com/discussion/comment/13515#Comment_13515</a>
I checked Liege to find out the mapping of roads there:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/imn">http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/imn</a>
My guess is, that unclassified is used wrong there and that is the
reason for strange routings. My opinion is that unclassified as the
lowest kind of connecting roads do not end at city borders and have or
need common connection to same or higher class inside of towns or
villages. For me routers should avoid residentials and lower as much
as possible. Do you have any idea to check and correct this in Liege
to make routing better?

If there are any questions, please ask.

Regards
Michael aka hurdygurdyman
</pre>
      </blockquote>
      In order to produce good routing using the <b>main</b> roads (1),
      ...<br>
      why not adopt in OSM the <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://fr.viamichelin.be/web/Cartes-plans/Carte_plan-Liege-_-Liege-Belgique?">same


        classification as Michelin</a> (2)?<br>
      They should know something about routing, shouldn't they?<br>
      <br>
      <table border="1" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="2">
        <tbody>
          <tr>
            <td valign="top">Michelin<br>
            </td>
            <td bgcolor="#ff0000" valign="top"><br>
            </td>
            <td colspan="2" rowspan="1" bgcolor="#ffcc00" valign="top"><br>
            </td>
            <td colspan="2" rowspan="1" valign="top"><br>
            </td>
          </tr>
          <tr>
            <td valign="top">BE ID/type<br>
            </td>
            <td valign="top">Nxx<br>
            </td>
            <td valign="top">Nxxx<br>
            </td>
            <td valign="top">other<br>
            </td>
            <td valign="top">many houses<br>
            </td>
            <td valign="top">rare houses<br>
            </td>
          </tr>
          <tr>
            <td valign="top">OSM<br>
            </td>
            <td valign="top">primary<br>
            </td>
            <td valign="top">secondary<br>
            </td>
            <td valign="top">tertiary<br>
            </td>
            <td valign="top">residential<br>
            </td>
            <td valign="top">unclassified<br>
            </td>
          </tr>
        </tbody>
      </table>
      <br>
      Inside town, the main advantage is that streets are then
      classified as either secondary/tertiary or
      residential/unclassified <br>
      according to whether they should be used or not for routes from
      town place to place.<br>
      Please note that when a street is promoted to tertiary status, the
      fact that it contains houses gets disregarded<br>
      (and hence I wonder if it's a good idea to consider houses  for
      road classification rather than using an additional residential
      attribute (yes, I know it's the way "we" do it)).<br>
      <br>
      I am willing to explain JOSM users how to compare OSM and Michelin
      easily.<br>
      Please send me a <b>private </b><b>reply</b> to the next message
      "Michelin info" to get it.<br>
      I would do a part of Liège myself if it's organized by someone
      distributing the tasks.<br>
      <br>
      Cheers <br>
      <br>
      <table>
        <tbody>
          <tr>
            <td>André.</td>
          </tr>
        </tbody>
      </table>
      <br>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2016-09-15 17:26, Martin
      Koppenhoefer wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CABPTjTAgvteGX7=G52NnxvydfFJSQ8V2kE=9NN24OY3ahfWPRA@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">
      <div dir="ltr">
        <div class="gmail_extra">Generally, I think we are doing it more
          or less like Michelin in your table. Where do you see
          differences? Clearly the classification of a road should not
          change just because it enters a settlement.<br>
          <br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_extra">Cheers,<br>
        </div>
        <div class="gmail_extra">Martin</div>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <br>
    <br>
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