<div dir="auto">Okay, okay, RMS and peak are not the same. Now, move on to the main topic, power poles.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Well, what is called a power pole here in OSM is primarily a wood, concrete, or steel pole, usually with a cross-arm. But looking deeper in the real world, power poles have more designs aside from the usual design with one cross-arm supported by brackets, especially when giving regard to lines beside roads (as it seems that OSM has its power distribution infrastructure focused on lines in dedicated right-of-way, which is primarily found in Europe, but distribution lines is primarily found beside roads in most of Asia, Oceania, and the Americas). There are poles with two or more cross-arms supporting multiple circuits, poles with no cross-arm (insulators are on the pole itself), and poles holding high voltage lines (usually called subtransmission lines, common in North America, Australia, and some Asian countries, like the Philippines and Thailand). And do you agree that poles has other designs aside from the usual design composed of the pole and cross-arm, if you will refer to personal knowledge of power lines? And for the design names (<a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Power_pole_extension">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Power_pole_extension</a>), is it better to base them on the existing design values at the power tower page (<a href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power=tower#Tower_designs">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power=tower#Tower_designs</a>), with additional tags, like "armless_asymmetric" and "armless_triangle", variants of the asymmetric and triangle designs, which is used to refer to those used with cross-arms, but for the cases mentioned, these have the insulators placed on the pole instead on cross-arms? And, do the "flag" design all right to use on a pole with no cross-arms and the insulators placed on one side of the pole, just like the same description of the same design on a power=tower?</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Feb 16, 2017 1:03 PM, "Warin" <<a href="mailto:61sundowner@gmail.com">61sundowner@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><div class="quoted-text">
    <div class="m_-6785367316878948816moz-cite-prefix">On 16-Feb-17 01:00 PM, John F. Eldredge
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <div style="color:black">
        <div style="color:black">
          <p style="margin:0 0 1em 0;color:black">The RMS voltage of
            an
            alternating-current electrical source is the direct-current
            voltage that
            would supply the same power into a resistive load. That is
            to say, imagine
            you have an AC power source operating a heating element, and
            a DC power
            source operating an identical heating element. The DC
            connection powers the
            heating element continuously. The AC signal starts at zero
            volts, increases
            to a peak, then decreases back to zero. Then it does that
            again, to a
            negative voltage (the electrons flow in the opposite
            direction). The
            heating element doesn't care which direction the electrons
            are flowing;
            both directions produce the same amount of heat.  If the net
            heat
            production from the AC-powered heating element is the same
            as the net heat
            production from the DC-powered element, then the Root Mean
            Square voltage
            of the AC power source is the same as the constant DC
            voltage from the DC
            power source.<br>
          </p>
        </div>
        <div dir="auto">
          <div><br>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote></div>
    Off topic warning. <br>
    Johns definition above is correct .. <br>
    These are fundamental to any electrical person. <br>
    The AC voltage can be stated in various ways .. where the statement
    of voltage does not include rms, peak or peak to peak most people
    would take the statement as being rms. <br>
    <br>
    From a simple maths viewpoint:<br>
    <br>
    The relationship of RMS (route mean squared), peak and peak to peak
    are very well defined mathematically for a pure sine wave;<br>
    <br>
    peak to peak = peak x 2<br>
    RMS = peak x 0.707 (or the reciprocal of the square route of two, if
    you need more digits)<br>
    <br>
    Thus 220 v RMS will be 311 v peak and 622 v peak to peak.<br>
    <br>
    220 v RMS single phase voltage system resolves into a 3 phase system
    of  381 v RMS, as the 220 v is from one line to neutral, where as
    the 3 phase voltage is from one line to the other. <br>
    <br>
    Again there is a simple mathematical vector relationship between the
    single phase and the 3 phase voltages. <br><div class="quoted-text">
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <div style="color:black">
        <div dir="auto">
          <div>
            <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
              <div class="gmail_quote">On Feb 15, 2017 4:42 PM, "Warin"
                <<a href="mailto:61sundowner@gmail.com" target="_blank">61sundowner@gmail.com</a>>
                wrote:<br type="attribution">
                <blockquote class="m_-6785367316878948816quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                  <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
                    <div class="m_-6785367316878948816quoted-text">
                      <div class="m_-6785367316878948816m_8254107741908932764moz-cite-prefix">On
                        15-Feb-17 05:52
                        PM, Jherome Miguel wrote:<br>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote type="cite">
                        <div dir="auto">
                          <div><br>
                            <div class="gmail_extra"><br>
                              <div class="gmail_quote">On Feb 13, 2017
                                4:19 PM, "François Lacombe" <<a href="mailto:fl.infosreseaux@gmail.com" target="_blank">fl.infosreseaux@gmail.com</a>>
                                wrote:<br type="attribution">
                                <blockquote class="m_-6785367316878948816m_8254107741908932764quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                                  <div dir="ltr">Hi Warin,<br>
                                    <div><br>
                                      <div class="gmail_extra">
                                        <div class="gmail_quote">
                                          <div class="m_-6785367316878948816m_8254107741908932764quoted-text">2017-02-13
                                            8:42 GMT+01:00 Warin <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:61sundowner@gmail.com" target="_blank">61sundowner@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br>
                                            <blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote">
                                              <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><span class="m_-6785367316878948816m_8254107741908932764m_-1006654960532443629gmail-"><br>
                                                </span> In Australia;<br>
                                                Heavy industry gets 3
                                                phases.<br>
                                              </div>
                                            </blockquote>
                                            <div><br>
                                            </div>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>Same in Europe, 2-phases
                                            or 3-phases depends on
                                            needs.<br>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>Here 3-phases for heavy
                                            industry : <a href="https://www.google.fr/maps/@45.2719628,6.3749132,3a,48.9y,219.64h,93.88t/data=%213m6%211e1%213m4%211sdoIRusd2UEOaiNkxbR5tUw%212e0%217i13312%218i6656%216m1%211e1" target="_blank">https://www.google.fr/maps/@45<wbr>.2719628,6.3749132,3a,48.9y,21<wbr>9.64h,93.88t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4<wbr>!1sdoIRusd2UEOaiNkxbR5tUw!2e0!<wbr>7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1</a><br>
                                            <br>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>2-phases for train
                                            traction (2 separate
                                            circuits of 2 phases each) :<br>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>From public power grid :
                                            <a href="https://www.google.fr/maps/place/73300+Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne/@43.830987,4.5832895,3a,27.2y,18.11h,110.85t/data=%213m6%211e1%213m4%211shRm5LaCrnCyD-I8kNBVv0Q%212e0%217i13312%218i6656%214m5%213m4%211s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:0x408ab2ae4baab70%218m2%213d45.275403%214d6.344886%216m1%211e1" target="_blank">https://www.google.fr/maps/pla<wbr>ce/73300+Saint-Jean-de-Maurien<wbr>ne/@43.830987,4.5832895,3a,27.<wbr>2y,18.11h,110.85t/data=!3m6!1e<wbr>1!3m4!1shRm5LaCrnCyD-I8kNBVv0Q<wbr>!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!<wbr>1s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:0x408ab2a<wbr>e4baab70!8m2!3d45.275403!4d6.<wbr>344886!6m1!1e1</a><br>
                                          </div>
                                          <div>To traction substation :
                                            <a href="https://www.google.fr/maps/place/73300+Saint-Jean-de-Maurienne/@43.8414547,4.5586151,3a,15y,304.69h,91.76t/data=%213m6%211e1%213m4%211s2SoaNSBHWlYnq6u8vvwSRQ%212e0%217i13312%218i6656%214m5%213m4%211s0x478a25581ea5e5cf:0x408ab2ae4baab70%218m2%213d45.275403%214d6.344886%216m1%211e1" target="_blank">https://www.google.fr/maps/pla<wbr>ce/73300+Saint-Jean-de-Maurien<wbr>ne/@43.8414547,4.5586151,3a,15<wbr>y,304.69h,91.76t/data=!3m6!1e1<wbr>!3m4!1s2SoaNSBHWlYnq6u8vvwSRQ!<wbr>2e0!7i13312!8i6656!4m5!3m4!1s0<wbr>x478a25581ea5e5cf:0x408ab2ae4b<wbr>aab70!8m2!3d45.275403!4d6.3448<wbr>86!6m1!1e1</a></div>
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </blockquote>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <div dir="auto"><br>
                          </div>
                          <div dir="auto">For the Philippines, two or
                            three phases for the primary are for large
                            commercial customers, but the output, it is
                            three-phase (220/380, 220/380/440, 440/760,
                            660/1150, 880/1530, and others, all 60 Hz).
                            Households use single-phase, either two-wire
                            (220 volts) or three-wire systems (220/440
                            volts, though electricity meters show "240
                            volts", which is within the tolerance of 220
                            volts, the peak voltage of one phase wire of
                            the system</div>
                        </div>
                      </blockquote>
                      <br>
                    </div>
                    Errr most places this is the RMS voltage, not the
                    peak voltage. <br>
                    The 240 220 230 volts conflicts have been discussed
                    for many years at an international level. Now they
                    agree that their present tolerances encompass an
                    agreed range ... that encompasses all those
                    voltages. <br>
                    <div class="m_-6785367316878948816quoted-text"> </div>
                  </div>
                </blockquote>
              </div>
            </div>
          </div>
          <div dir="auto"><br>
          </div>
          <div dir="auto">Possibly you think the peak voltage is
            the line-line voltage, right, while RMS voltage is
            line-neutral voltage. Is
            that correct?</div>
          <div dir="auto"><br>
          </div>
        </div>
      </div>
    </blockquote></div>
    No. See the above. <br>
  </div>

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