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    I'm also one of those who has tagged many gravel roads as gravel. <br>
    The description on the wiki there now seems good to me:<br>
    "This tag has very large meaning range. Used for cases ranging from
    huge gravel pieces like track ballast used as surface, through small
    pieces of gravel to compacted surface."<br>
    I didn't see that it was changed recently?<br>
    It sounds like the tag is used consistently with the way most people
    think of a gravel road.   It sounds like this is true not just in my
    area, but worldwide?   <br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 4/16/21 1:44 AM, Mateusz Konieczny
      via Tagging wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite" cite="mid:MYOcpOo--3-2@tutanota.com">
      <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
      <div>The problem is that basically all surface=gravel mismatched
        supposed definition.<br>
      </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>So pretending that surface=gravel is anything else except
        "any kind of gravel, small<br>
      </div>
      <div>or large" would be pointless.<br>
      </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>I would rather invent new values less likely to be
        misinterpreted<br>
      </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Something like<br>
      </div>
      <div>surface=track_ballast (?) / surface=huge_gravel (?) /
        surface=ballast / surface=rubble (???)<br>
      </div>
      <div>for <a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:%C5%A0t%C4%9Brkov%C3%A1_cesta_u_Pl%C3%A1%C5%A1t%C3%ADku.jpg"
          rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"
          moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:%C5%A0t%C4%9Brkov%C3%A1_cesta_u_Pl%C3%A1%C5%A1t%C3%ADku.jpg</a><br>
      </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>And surface=small_gravel or something else for <br>
      </div>
      <div><a
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Gravel_road,_car_in_viewfield_for_scale.jpg"
          moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Gravel_road,_car_in_viewfield_for_scale.jpg</a><br>
      </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>And rersurvey, with retagging to more precise values
        (surface=gravel is still useful, <br>
      </div>
      <div>as surface=unpaved may be also for example surface=sand)<br>
      </div>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <div>Apr 16, 2021, 08:41 by <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:voschix@gmail.com">voschix@gmail.com</a>:<br>
      </div>
      <blockquote class="tutanota_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid
        #93A3B8; padding-left: 10px; margin-left: 5px;">
        <div dir="auto">
          <div>I acknowledge there is a problem. I started out putting
            "gravel" on many maintained unpaved roads, only to look up
            the wiki some years later. I know use "fine_gravel" (taginfo
            170k uses), which broadly corrisponds to the "gravel" of
            "gravel bikes". <br>
          </div>
          <div dir="auto">So, yes,  most of my "gravel" roads are really
            "fine_gravel", but I have no idea how widespread it is, and
            also how much it depends of the mapper's mother tongue.<br>
          </div>
          <div dir="auto">I would not redefine the value "gravel",
            rather put a warning on the page, pointing out that we have
            this wide spread confusion, and invite mappers to consider
            "fine_gravel".<br>
          </div>
        </div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div class="">
          <div class="" dir="ltr">Il Gio 15 Apr 2021, 10:00 Mateusz
            Konieczny via Tagging <<a
              href="mailto:tagging@openstreetmap.org" rel="noopener
              noreferrer" target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>>
            ha scritto:<br>
          </div>
          <blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
            solid;padding-left:1ex" class="">
            <div>
              <div>For long time this tag was described at Key:surface
                page as <br>
              </div>
              <div>"Broken/crushed rock with sharp edges, known as
                ballast on railways. Usually loosely arranged.<br>
              </div>
              <div>Typical size for road and surface construction range
                between 4 and 8 cm".<br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>( <a rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"
                  href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:surface"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:surface</a>
                )<br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>But it turns out that surface=gravel is primarily
                used for roads where far smaller <br>
              </div>
              <div>pieces of rocks are used.<br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>It is result of <br>
              </div>
              <div>- "gravel roads" term is often used in many countries
                for something where far smaller pieces<br>
              </div>
              <div>  of rock are used, some of such roads would qualify
                for surface=compacted.<br>
              </div>
              <div>  See <a rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"
                  href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Gravelsign2.jpg"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Gravelsign2.jpg</a><br>
              </div>
              <div>- "gravel" and equivalent terms in other languages is
                often used by people to refer to pieces<br>
              </div>
              <div>  of rock far smaller than 4cm<br>
              </div>
              <div>- there was not good tag for roads with surface of
                small loose gravel <br>
              </div>
              <div>  (surface=fine_gravel at <a rel="noopener
                  noreferrer" target="_blank"
                  href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:surface"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:surface</a>
                has<br>
              </div>
              <div>  "A multilayer pavement with a stone or gravel basis
                and a topmost surface of firm, granular grit,<br>
              </div>
              <div>  basalt or quartz," what anyway excluded cases of
                some gravel thrown on earth/mud/drt )<br>
              </div>
              <div>- surfaces matching old Wiki definitions are existing
                but really rare <br>
              </div>
              <div>  <a rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:%C5%A0t%C4%9Brkov%C3%A1_cesta_u_Pl%C3%A1%C5%A1t%C3%ADku.jpg"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:%C5%A0t%C4%9Brkov%C3%A1_cesta_u_Pl%C3%A1%C5%A1t%C3%ADku.jpg</a><br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>How one may know that Wiki definition mismatches
                actual use?<br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>assumption:<br>
              </div>
              <div>Surfacing roads/paths/etc with track ballast-sized
                pieces of gravel is extremely rare<br>
              </div>
              <div>(though it happens)<br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>but in actual use surface=gravel is extremely common,
                far more common that<br>
              </div>
              <div>old Wiki definition.<br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>So actual use clearly mismatches wiki definition.<br>
              </div>
              <div>In addition, many people using surface=gravel were
                unaware of this definition and unaware<br>
              </div>
              <div>that such surfaces described in Wiki actually exist!<br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>See <a rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"
href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2021-March/014445.html"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2021-March/014445.html</a><br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>So:<br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>It turns out that surface=gravel is for anything from
                "basically compacted" to<br>
              </div>
              <div>"basically track ballast".<br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>I recommend checking <a rel="noopener noreferrer"
                  target="_blank"
                  href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:surface"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:surface</a>
                in your language<br>
              </div>
              <div>and updating definition to match actual tag use.<br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>It would be nice to find some good tagging for
                surfaces like<br>
              </div>
              <div><a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:%C5%A0t%C4%9Brkov%C3%A1_cesta_u_Pl%C3%A1%C5%A1t%C3%ADku.jpg"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:%C5%A0t%C4%9Brkov%C3%A1_cesta_u_Pl%C3%A1%C5%A1t%C3%ADku.jpg</a><br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>surface=track_ballast? surface=huge_gravel?
                surface=ballast?<br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>It would be also nice to find some more specific
                values for <br>
              </div>
              <div>cases of small gravel thrown on mud/dirt/grass - as
                surface=gravel<br>
              </div>
              <div>turns out to be very unspecific ability to tag this
                in detail would be great<br>
              </div>
              <div>(useful especially for cyclists)<br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>surface=small_gravel? Something else?<br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>PS AAAARAGAGAHHA. Tag used over 1.5 million times had
                actual use and OSM Wiki<br>
              </div>
              <div>definition completely and utterly mismatched.<br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>And we need new tags and resurvey of 1 500 000
                elements to have useful information about surface.<br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Right now surface=gravel may be both <br>
              </div>
              <div><a rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"
href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:%C5%A0t%C4%9Brkov%C3%A1_cesta_u_Pl%C3%A1%C5%A1t%C3%ADku.jpg"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:%C5%A0t%C4%9Brkov%C3%A1_cesta_u_Pl%C3%A1%C5%A1t%C3%ADku.jpg</a><br>
              </div>
              <div>and<br>
              </div>
              <div><a rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"
                  href="https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Gravelsign2.jpg"
                  moz-do-not-send="true">https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:Gravelsign2.jpg</a><br>
              </div>
              <div>that for many purposes are worth distinguishing.<br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div><br>
              </div>
              <div>Arghhh.<br>
              </div>
            </div>
            <div>_______________________________________________<br>
            </div>
            <div> Tagging mailing list<br>
            </div>
            <div> <a rel="noopener noreferrer" target="_blank"
                href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org"
                moz-do-not-send="true">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a><br>
            </div>
            <div> <a target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"
                href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging"
                moz-do-not-send="true">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a><br>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
        </div>
      </blockquote>
      <div><br>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">_______________________________________________
Tagging mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Tagging@openstreetmap.org">Tagging@openstreetmap.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging">https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
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