[talk-au] Edits in and around Mt Barker, SA

[Kim Hawtin]

hi guys =)

bluemm1975-osm at yahoo.com wrote:
>> Kim wrote:
>> I've been busy uploading traces and mapping around Mt Barker
>> and Littlehampton a bit lately. I have a couple of questions
>> I was hoping folks could clear up;
>>
>> - Are the rail and road under passes right? I have set them as
>>   tunnels, because it makes more sense than the freeway being a
>>   bridge, how ever what do other folks use?
> 
> Use a tunnel if it is one, or a bridge if that is what is there. I'm sure there are some weird hybrid examples, but if it is a culvit for streams/drains, I use a tunnel. If I'm not sure what is there, I leave it with the ways overlapping without any bridge/tunnel tags (I think the validator in JOSM warns about it), so I or someone else can fix it when visiting it next.

ok, its not a bridge, but a built up embankment with a tunnel in it.
there are a couple of bridges further east, but wasn't sure if there
was a standard or my miss-interpretation

>> - I've put in a few round'a'bouts ... they are messy critters.
>>   is it the right thing to draw them out with little link roads
>>   or should they be put up as where the roads intersect with
>>   the joining node and tag that node as a round about?
>>   especially larger ones, like the end of Gawler street near the
>>   bus interchange?
> 
> Bane of my existence!! The OSM wiki says you should only draw the connecting ways as split (which form triangle islands) if it is a large roundabout. A normal suburban roundabout should just be a circle (I use 8 corners) with the 4 ways connected. Merkaartor has a roundabout tool where you click a crossing, select the diameter of the roundabout and it creates a circle with the ways cropped off to it (JOSM might have something similar). Some people mapping Melbourne use mini-roundabout's to save time, but it's only for mini UK style ones with a tiny white painted circle in the middle of the intersection. I'd personally like the junction=roundabout tag to apply to a node, with a eg. junction:width=5m tag, so renderers could draw the circle road & inner island all by themselves without lots of extra effort.
> 
> Looking at your B37 & Alexandrina & Flaxley Rd roundabout, you don't need oneway=yes(it's implied), clockwise(just draw it in a clockwise direction), ref(roundabout's don't inherit route numbers, it's for when roundabout's have specific ref numbers [in Europe I think]). The incoming split lanes for B37 should be primary (as it's still the road, not a link, just split into oneway's), as the north ones are, but the south ones are primary_link. Conversely, the East & West split's should be secondary. Split's should have the same tags as the road it splits from, but split's add oneway=yes. Only *_link's and roundabout's don't have ref's or names (except when specifically signposted, UK has examples of this).
> The Alexandrina Rd & Fletcher St one is missing the junction=roundabout circle for the roundabout, and missing oneway=yes tags for the split ways.

part of the problem is I am one of several mappers in the area and
I'm trying to find out which is a good/right/better/consistent way
to do it.

so the Alexandrina & Flaxley Rd roundabout was put in by someone
else after I put the initial roads in.

>> - I have been seeing lots of roads and other objects get a blue
>>   halo ... there seems to be an attribute against each of these
>>   that I didn't mark up, but by my reading, isn't supported by
>>   the renderer? especially "ref" and "street" ...
> 
> They are "relations" to tie different ways together to form logically-connected ways, eg. routes. They are relatively new to OSM and I haven't played with them much, but others have added them in my area. The only strange thing I can see is that the motorway_link for the B37 & M1 are added to the relations, which I believe is wrong because they are on/offramps, not the actual freeway that the route follows.

well i'm seeing the halos appear on areas, creeks, isolated bits
of road, and railway that are not connected to other things.
i assumed this was a way in potlatch to flag busted key value pairs.

>> - My edits seem to be taking around two weeks to hit the OSM
>>   normal map ... isn't this normally happening weekly?
> 
> The main map grabs data on Wednesdays UK time, and then spends a day or two creating new tiles for the map, therefore if you updated OSM on Wednesday our time, it could be a week & a bit before the updates appear. And if you browser (or ISP) has the map tiles cached, you might need to Ctrl+F5 to force a reload from the tile server. Miss match of old & new tiles usually means a caching issue.

ok, this is cool, its been a bit variable. also have had to go
back and make some edits on ways to make them right, like oneway
sections etc...

> Tags suggestions
> ----------------
> Looking at Mt Barker township, you've done a fantastic job.

=D every little bit helps

> I noticed a few tagging schemes different to mine:-
> * Lots of the area's don't need area=yes, like parking/schools/landuse etc.
> * Parking/school doesn't need a separate POI node in the middle, the renderers are now smart enough to stick an icon in the middle.

well, this is part of the multiple mappers doing different things,
and me trying to figure out which is the right way to do it. i've
been looking at other parts of the state, mostly adelaide trying
to figure out how others have done it... and there being some confusion

> * Landuse doesn't need to be bounded by streets (cookie cutter'ed), just draw around the outside of the area (landuse is always rendered at the bottom, so no need for layer=-1, which is only used if you can "walk under" something). That should save you tonne's of effort :)

good =)

> * Similarly, the pitch & parking in the recreation_ground don't need layer=1 (as you can't walk under the parking!!)
> * There's streets in the East that are only source=survey, no highway=* tags. If not sure what type of street it is, use the new highway=road tag (basically means, "unknown class").

ok, part of that map with gps, draw the way, figure out what it should be classified as later thing...
i'm not done mapping, there is still plenty of little developments/burbs to go =)

> * I think the highway=traffic_signals on B37 next to Cornerstone College should include crossing=traffic_signals (or just crossing=pelican), as it appears to be a pedestrian crossing, see http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/index.php/Key:crossing.

didn't see that, would be nice to catch up with who ever else is mapping in Mt Barker and talk about how to edit stuff =)
i'll check it on the

> Also, I'm not sure if you have used the Yahoo layer, but Mt Barker has good coverage down to z17.

yeah mt barker is right on the edge of high res layer =\
its not much help as the imagery is many years out of date =/

> Source
> ------
> It's my personal crusade, but since I don't have a GPS, I've been adding source=yahoo to the ways I've traced (or source=landsat for country regions without high zoom Yahoo imagery). I see a lot of source=survey tags, but the OSM "mavens" on Talk mailing list think survey implies professional surveyed equipment, and prefer source=gps. I see a few source:name=survey tags, which is what I do when I go out for a ride and write down street/POI names in a notepad. Maybe source:name=notepad would be better, but source:name=survey is more popular. Ideally all names have a source:name=photo with a Geotagged photo uploaded to OSM for proof of street signs, but until I get a GPS, there's not much point taking photo's.

ok, pretty much all my edits since may have been based on gps trail, plus notes on paper for names.

I think I'll be checking in with you guys more on tricky edit questions over the next few months,
now that I have a regular pattern of trailing and map editing going =) i just wanted to get some
data in and massage it a bit later ;)

thanks for your feedback =D

cheers,

Kim
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