[talk-au] tagging 4WD and dirt roads - I give up.

David Bannon dbannon at internode.on.net
Mon Nov 12 23:31:38 GMT 2012


OK, I have to recognise that my "proposed proposal" is not attracting
any support. So I will walk away. However, that leaves the problem
unsolved and , I still think, dangerously so.

Are there any alternatives folks ? Should we (ie in Australia)
encourage people to use smoothness= for example ? I hate the tag name
and the values associated with it but maybe its the only game in town
? There are already considerably more horrible, very_horrible and
impassable values set against smoothness than 4wd_Only  tags and by a
considerable factor. It does offer a degree of "fine grain" against
4wd_only's 'yes' or not there.

However, (eg) OSM website map ignores smoothness= (unlike tracktype)
but that may be becuse not enough people are complaining about it. But
I must say, I would not feel anywhere near as confident asking
renderers about smoothness= as I would about an extended tracktype=.

Please consider....

David,  

----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Harvey" 

 > This is a complete failure of the cartography and if it represented
 > unpaved vs paved as dotted casing then I would have been prepared
and
 > expecting the surface change along the road.

Indeed, but as long as mappers present the renderers with a mismash of
data, we can expect no better !

 > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tagging_for_the_renderer

No, I don't really think my proposal fits into this catagory, but it
does take a more pragmatic view than many OSMs would. I understand it
may well be too pragmatic !

>  I think your extension proposal make is more complicated as it is
 > unclear what the scale represents since it isn't a linear scale for
one
 > attribute. 

well, in that case, I think I have failed. My plan was always to seek
the simplest way through a very complicated maze. If its still not
simple enough, so be it !

> .... We have,
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:surface
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:tracktype
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:smoothness
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/surface_unification
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/usability
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/mtb:scale
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:trail_visibility
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:Sac_scale
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:4wd_only%3Dyes

Only useful use of surface= is unpaved. I have tried and failed with
tracktype=, the 'proposed' ones mentioned above are all either
abandonded or should be. mtb is about mountain bikes and so on. we are
really not addressing this problem folks !

 > Although this issue does affect Australia due to the nature of the
 > outback, it is a global issue. I think it would be best to take
your
 > thoughts to the global tagging list at let the discussion happen
there.

 No, to be realistic, if I cannot get any support here in Oz, little
hope of doing so elsewhere.

Sorry about any awkard editing here, using an android device as I am
away and left my laptop powersupply at home!

David

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