[talk-au] Historic stations and rail

Nathan Van Der Meulen natvander at yahoo.com
Tue Jul 9 03:21:44 UTC 2013


I use name=Thompson (disused) as the map user sees immediately that the station is no longer in use.  This may not be such a drama where the track is out of use as well, but when you map a station out of use on a running line if the station appears just like any other station it becomes confusing.  This is also consistent with the method used by various map makers.

Nathan





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 From: "talk-au-request at openstreetmap.org" <talk-au-request at openstreetmap.org>
To: talk-au at openstreetmap.org 
Sent: Tuesday, 9 July 2013 12:58 PM
Subject: Talk-au Digest, Vol 73, Issue 6
 

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Today's Topics:

   1. Historic stations and rail (Steve Bennett)
   2. Making Garmin IMG for Bushwalking - Insanity starts
      (Brett Russell)
   3. Re: Vicmap data released on data.gov.au (Li Xia)


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Message: 1
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 09:43:18 +1000
From: Steve Bennett <stevagewp at gmail.com>
To: talk-au <talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
Subject: [talk-au] Historic stations and rail
Message-ID:
    <CA+z=q=vPedfUO7xJC5AMVFCSeMYp3RmBTXwym1jmCxLywzuPEA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi all,
  I've been working on some old train lines and stations, mostly
around Victoria, and have finally settled on a tagging scheme, based
on what's popular in taginfo. The current tagging has been pretty
inconsistent, with lots of variations like "railway=station,
disused=yes", "railway=station, name=Foo (former)",
"railway:historic=station", "historic:railway=station",
"building=station"...

Thought I'd check whether anyone has any comments/disagreements:

Active stations (whether tourist, regional, commuter or freight):
railway=station

Disused/abandoned stations, with buildings present:
railway:historic=station

Abandoned, former station site, no buildings, little to see:
railway:historic=station_site

In all cases, the name of the station object should just be, eg, "Thompson".
Not: "Thompson (former)"
Not: "Thompson (disused)"
Not: "Thompson Railway Station"

In addition, a station building may be tagged as:
building=station

(But one of the above should also be present - either on the building
polygon or not.)


Active rail (commuter, freight, regional):
railway=rail

Tourist rail
railway=preserved

Disused, but tracks still present and conceivably services could return:
railway=disused

Tracks removed, or state is pretty far gone.
railway=abandoned

Thoughts?

To see where we're at, I've done a quick replica of this well known
rail map of Victoria:
http://i.imgur.com/ohXHwsk.png
http://emscycletours.site44.com/rail.html

Steve



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 12:56:23 +1030
From: Brett Russell <brussell237 at live.com.au>
To: OSM Australia mailing list <talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
Subject: [talk-au] Making Garmin IMG for Bushwalking - Insanity starts
Message-ID: <SNT130-W16CB0270584A02FC402838AF790 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi

In the wonderful vague world that is OSM I am attempting to make maps for my Garmin 62s optimized for bushwalking.  I have raised this issue a few time but not much luck but decided to be pig headed and not let this beat me as more than a few people have become enthusiast about OSM only to become disillusion when they actually try to use it in the bush.  We have the excellent site OSM Australia that for vehicle users generates very sensibly sized IMG for each state.  I use their routeable maps on the Garmin 62s and the 2Km minor roads ones on my Fenix and have for a friend loaded them on his Extrex 10.  But they do not have contours.  I have obtained and loaded on more than a few Garmins the Contour Australia 5M.  Then I overlay the IMG from OSM Australia but frankly this is a clumsy solution for many people as the OSM Australian site IMG have poor zoom level set for bushwalkers and you do not get colour coded elevation shading.

So I have been reading up on mkgmap and struck as usual the "standard" array of Wikipedia entries that go around in circles with the reader needing to make numerous assumptions and follow links and at the end of this maze either given up or some how figure out what needs to happen.  Then I stumbled across http://thebird.nl/tutorials/osm_garmin.html, that while for Linux, explains the concepts so light has started to dawn.

My biggest issue is I use Telstra's mobile phone network to connect to the internet and this means very expensive data costs.  So I am rather keen to minimize downloads.  Ideally if the project works I would not mind if OSM Australia could generate the maps but first I need to workout how to do it myself and get others to use them before troubling the site owner.

Ok the first step is getting the OSM data.  I am aware that http://download.geofabrik.de/ provides .pbf files but for Australia it is 145MB.  Bit much of a download for a mobile phone given that I am looking to update Tassie every week or so as I am still madly mapping under the name Ent.  So step one is, getting .pbf files for just Tassie to begin with.  I cannot find anything that will do this.  I am aware that OSM will export small sections in an alternative format but will not do the whole state.  The reason for the whole state is about about every second weekend I can be walking anywhere in Tassie so would like to have all the state loaded so I can test it out with worrying about getting the exact section right as plans change often when we get in the car.

So does anyone know where I will find a site to download a pdf format file for Tassie and more importantly how to do this.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers

Brett
                          
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Message: 3
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 12:58:23 +1000
From: Li Xia <lisxia1982 at gmail.com>
To: talk-au at openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [talk-au] Vicmap data released on data.gov.au
Message-ID:
    <CAK6Z9VFuac9jUwa828ZOkwTm_HgSK_2NkiZK92vawnk==y1E2w at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Sweet, very exciting and willing to lend a hand in the import process.

Also have a few contacts in Vicmap, and will email Nyall Dawson directly.

What tools are available for importing data (and removing duplicates)

Li.

On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 10:00 PM, <talk-au-request at openstreetmap.org> wrote:

> Send Talk-au mailing list submissions to
>        talk-au at openstreetmap.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>        http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>        talk-au-request at openstreetmap.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>        talk-au-owner at openstreetmap.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Talk-au digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Vicmap data released on data.gov.au (Nyall Dawson)
>    2. Re: Vicmap data released on data.gov.au (Ian Sergeant)
>    3. Re: Vicmap data released on data.gov.au (Paul Norman)
>    4. Re: Vicmap data released on data.gov.au (Nyall Dawson)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2013 09:27:15 +1000
> From: Nyall Dawson <nyall.dawson at gmail.com>
> To: talk-au at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: [talk-au] Vicmap data released on data.gov.au
> Message-ID:
>         <CAB28AsgZPt3Dw4WAuwRSYA_Jm=x+3v428=
> V7mifeEdXbgEr4yg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm not sure if this has been raised yet, but in the last week the
> entire VicMap dataset was released on data.vic.gov.au under a
> CC-Attribution 3.0 license. This includes the entire address [1],
> roads [2], parcel boundaries [3], and administration boundaries [4]
> for Victoria. I gather by
>
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution/data.gov.au_explicit_permission
> that we're OK to use data from data.gov.au for OSM.
>
> Does anyone know if this is still the case, and if so, how we could go
> about getting this data into osm? I'm willing to do any hard work
> required, but don't want to duplicate effort and first want to see if
> there's already any ongoing discussion about this data release.
>
> Regards,
> Nyall Dawson
>
>
> 1. http://www.data.vic.gov.au/raw_data/address-vicmap-address/748
> 2. http://www.data.vic.gov.au/raw_data/road-network-vicmap-transport/4877
> 3. http://www.data.vic.gov.au/raw_data/parcel-view-vicmap-property/2038
> 4.
> http://www.data.vic.gov.au/raw_data/locality-boundaries-property-polygon-vicmap-admin/2043
>
> http://www.data.vic.gov.au/raw_data/local-government-area-boundaries-property-polygon-vicmap-admin/2039
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2013 10:09:54 +1000
> From: Ian Sergeant <inas66+osm at gmail.com>
> To: Nyall Dawson <nyall.dawson at gmail.com>
> Cc: OSM - Talk-au <talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [talk-au] Vicmap data released on data.gov.au
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CALDa4YJBy0bzvNgqVKr3J91LZOneFGU8p0X7fEwR7EXRTUhCpg at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> We should send an email to the data owner to seek permission under our
> contributor terms.
>
> I don't think there is any relationship between data.vic.gov.au and
> data.gov.au, so I don't see how any permission we have is relevant to
> this.
>
> Ian.
>
>
> On 8 July 2013 09:27, Nyall Dawson <nyall.dawson at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm not sure if this has been raised yet, but in the last week the
> > entire VicMap dataset was released on data.vic.gov.au under a
> > CC-Attribution 3.0 license. This includes the entire address [1],
> > roads [2], parcel boundaries [3], and administration boundaries [4]
> > for Victoria. I gather by
> >
> >
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution/data.gov.au_explicit_permission
> > that we're OK to use data from data.gov.au for OSM.
> >
> > Does anyone know if this is still the case, and if so, how we could go
> > about getting this data into osm? I'm willing to do any hard work
> > required, but don't want to duplicate effort and first want to see if
> > there's already any ongoing discussion about this data release.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Nyall Dawson
> >
> >
> > 1. http://www.data.vic.gov.au/raw_data/address-vicmap-address/748
> > 2.
> http://www.data.vic.gov.au/raw_data/road-network-vicmap-transport/4877
> > 3. http://www.data.vic.gov.au/raw_data/parcel-view-vicmap-property/2038
> > 4.
> >
> http://www.data.vic.gov.au/raw_data/locality-boundaries-property-polygon-vicmap-admin/2043
> >
> >
> http://www.data.vic.gov.au/raw_data/local-government-area-boundaries-property-polygon-vicmap-admin/2039
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Talk-au mailing list
> > Talk-au at openstreetmap.org
> > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
> >
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> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 07 Jul 2013 17:28:03 -0700
> From: Paul Norman <penorman at mac.com>
> To: 'Nyall Dawson' <nyall.dawson at gmail.com>, talk-au at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [talk-au] Vicmap data released on data.gov.au
> Message-ID: <118d01ce7b72$034b0760$09e11620$@mac.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>
> > From: Nyall Dawson [mailto:nyall.dawson at gmail.com]
> > Sent: Sunday, July 07, 2013 4:27 PM
> > To: talk-au at openstreetmap.org
> > Subject: [talk-au] Vicmap data released on data.gov.au
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I'm not sure if this has been raised yet, but in the last week the
> > entire VicMap dataset was released on data.vic.gov.au under a CC-
> > Attribution 3.0 license. This includes the entire address [1], roads
> > [2], parcel boundaries [3], and administration boundaries [4] for
> > Victoria. I gather by
> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Attribution/data.gov.au_explicit_perm
> > ission
> > that we're OK to use data from data.gov.au for OSM.
> >
> > Does anyone know if this is still the case, and if so, how we could go
> > about getting this data into osm? I'm willing to do any hard work
> > required, but don't want to duplicate effort and first want to see if
> > there's already any ongoing discussion about this data release.
>
> All we need from them is a statement that "a notice associated with the
> Produced Work reasonably calculated to make any Person that uses, views,
> accesses, interacts with, or is otherwise exposed to the Produced Work
> aware
> that Content was obtained from the Database, Derivative Database, or the
> Database as part of a Collective Database, and that it is available under
> this License" (ODbL 4.3) meets the requirements of a notice "reasonable to
> the medium".
>
> Basically, that the attribution required by the ODbL is enough. Some cities
> have viewed CC BY's " reasonable to the medium" to mean every data source
> needs to be credited directly on a web map.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2013 13:43:22 +1000
> From: Nyall Dawson <nyall.dawson at gmail.com>
> To: Paul Norman <penorman at mac.com>
> Cc: talk-au at openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [talk-au] Vicmap data released on data.gov.au
> Message-ID:
>         <CAB28AsiQZ2TwdLP-pqJqTTOCWEkfnYSMthb=
> Amzn2_uYsTZwAQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> >
> > All we need from them is a statement that "a notice associated with the
> > Produced Work reasonably calculated to make any Person that uses, views,
> > accesses, interacts with, or is otherwise exposed to the Produced Work
> aware
> > that Content was obtained from the Database, Derivative Database, or the
> > Database as part of a Collective Database, and that it is available under
> > this License" (ODbL 4.3) meets the requirements of a notice "reasonable
> to
> > the medium".
> >
> > Basically, that the attribution required by the ODbL is enough. Some
> cities
> > have viewed CC BY's " reasonable to the medium" to mean every data source
> > needs to be credited directly on a web map.
> >
>
> Great -- this is exactly what I needed to know. I've attempted to get
> in contact with the appropriate person at data.vic.gov.au, I'll report
> back here how this goes.
>
> Cheers,
> Nyall Dawson
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au at openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>
>
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