[talk-au] Alphanumeric references in NSW

Ben Johnson tangararama at gmail.com
Thu May 9 19:29:06 UTC 2013


I took a look there last weekend. As you say... inconsistencies everywhere.

Northbound all are M1 with B74, and there's even a distance reassurance sign (not interchange-related) showing distances to Brisbane, titled "M1 Pacific Mwy" which I was surprised to see.

Southbound all are NR1 with B74.

The signs at the top of the ramps are in odd combinations like NR1 "Pacific Mwy" on one sign, and M1 "Freeway" on another...

It's a real tourist attraction for sign geeks!

BJ 

On 09/05/2013, at 22:11, Nathan Van Der Meulen <natvander at yahoo.com> wrote:

> You're not going to win any way you change the route references.  On the ground, around the Tuggerah Interchange alone are references to Nat Route 1, M1, Pacific Motorway etc.  Note that the freeway is referenced as M1 from Wyong Rd (B74) but on the freeway it's still NR1.  B74 only seems to be referenced at the interchange.  If you only edit as per what's on the ground, how do you edit that?
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On 03/05/2013, at 21:00, talk-au-request at openstreetmap.org wrote:
> 
>> Send Talk-au mailing list submissions to
>>   talk-au at openstreetmap.org
>> 
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>   http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>   talk-au-request at openstreetmap.org
>> 
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>   talk-au-owner at openstreetmap.org
>> 
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Talk-au digest..."
>> 
>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>  1. Alphanumeric references in NSW (Ian Sergeant)
>>  2. Re: Alphanumeric references in NSW (Ben Kelley)
>>  3. Re: Alphanumeric references in NSW (Ian Sergeant)
>>  4. Re: Alphanumeric references in NSW (Ben Johnson)
>>  5. Re: Alphanumeric references in NSW (Ian Sergeant)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 15:07:02 +1000
>> From: Ian Sergeant <inas66+osm at gmail.com>
>> To: OSM - Talk-au <Talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
>> Subject: [talk-au] Alphanumeric references in NSW
>> Message-ID:
>>   <CALDa4YLY+4KEnutrnBmjcRpE5z3G5hH4z6Yzyu=duWiW5snPAA at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I've noticed a few people are changing the references in NSW to the
>> alphanumeric references before the signage has changed.
>> 
>> I don't see the purpose of this.  I doesn't correspond to what is on the
>> ground, it must be confusing to people actually trying to use OSM for
>> navigation.  Also, given it is the RTA coordinate this, it wouldn't be
>> surprising if some of the routes actually differed from the proposed routes
>> on the webpage.
>> 
>> To the best of my knowledge the only route that has been re-referenced is
>> the B73, the others still retain their existing signage - with perhaps an
>> uncovered sign here and there.  I traced the
>> 
>> I'd suggest we can use the wiki to coordinate as these references change?
>> That way we can ensure the entire route is renamed at once, rather than a
>> patchwork?
>> 
>> Ian.
>> P.S. Of course there have been a few routes (M7, A31/M31 approaching
>> Albury) that have been this way for a while, and aren't at issue here.
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/attachments/20130503/f593d5da/attachment-0001.html>
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 15:33:45 +1000
>> From: Ben Kelley <ben.kelley at gmail.com>
>> To: Ian Sergeant <inas66+osm at gmail.com>
>> Cc: OSM - Talk-au <Talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
>> Subject: Re: [talk-au] Alphanumeric references in NSW
>> Message-ID:
>>   <CAE4-2TKPPKzjA3EE-kwfkDrH=8b-_by+H74HV3YTdGN+aJLgDg at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> 
>> Hi.
>> 
>> I have seen a few A15 signs on the New England Highway, but there are still
>> quite a few 43 and 15 signs along the route. The ground can still be a bit
>> confusing.
>> 
>> - Ben Kelley.
>> On 3 May 2013 15:08, "Ian Sergeant" <inas66+osm at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I've noticed a few people are changing the references in NSW to the
>>> alphanumeric references before the signage has changed.
>>> 
>>> I don't see the purpose of this.  I doesn't correspond to what is on the
>>> ground, it must be confusing to people actually trying to use OSM for
>>> navigation.  Also, given it is the RTA coordinate this, it wouldn't be
>>> surprising if some of the routes actually differed from the proposed routes
>>> on the webpage.
>>> 
>>> To the best of my knowledge the only route that has been re-referenced is
>>> the B73, the others still retain their existing signage - with perhaps an
>>> uncovered sign here and there.  I traced the
>>> 
>>> I'd suggest we can use the wiki to coordinate as these references
>>> change?   That way we can ensure the entire route is renamed at once,
>>> rather than a patchwork?
>>> 
>>> Ian.
>>> P.S. Of course there have been a few routes (M7, A31/M31 approaching
>>> Albury) that have been this way for a while, and aren't at issue here.
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Talk-au mailing list
>>> Talk-au at openstreetmap.org
>>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/attachments/20130503/deaad936/attachment-0001.html>
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 15:47:02 +1000
>> From: Ian Sergeant <inas66+osm at gmail.com>
>> To: Ben Kelley <ben.kelley at gmail.com>
>> Cc: OSM - Talk-au <Talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
>> Subject: Re: [talk-au] Alphanumeric references in NSW
>> Message-ID:
>>   <CALDa4YJAEBWHjFCzGsmC2yQdEvJTqUORQLvOk-mkwZjGXXgC5A at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>> 
>> Agreed.
>> 
>> I could see a strict "on-the-grounder" changing the ref for each road
>> section :-)
>> 
>> I've noticed Google Maps is using the A36 now for the Princes Hwy, but I've
>> only seen one sign at Rockdale, so I still think it is too early to change
>> the route in OSM, but I'm open to be convinced.
>> 
>> But I think using the wiki to coordinate when a particular route has been
>> referenced, and then we use old_ref to capture the previous route
>> referencing.  Currently when I use skobbler to do navigation its ugly
>> moving back and forth in references between the same road.
>> 
>> Ian.
>> 
>> On 3 May 2013 15:33, Ben Kelley <ben.kelley at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi.
>>> 
>>> I have seen a few A15 signs on the New England Highway, but there are
>>> still quite a few 43 and 15 signs along the route. The ground can still be
>>> a bit confusing.
>>> 
>>> - Ben Kelley.
>>> On 3 May 2013 15:08, "Ian Sergeant" <inas66+osm at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi,
>>>> 
>>>> I've noticed a few people are changing the references in NSW to the
>>>> alphanumeric references before the signage has changed.
>>>> 
>>>> I don't see the purpose of this.  I doesn't correspond to what is on the
>>>> ground, it must be confusing to people actually trying to use OSM for
>>>> navigation.  Also, given it is the RTA coordinate this, it wouldn't be
>>>> surprising if some of the routes actually differed from the proposed routes
>>>> on the webpage.
>>>> 
>>>> To the best of my knowledge the only route that has been re-referenced is
>>>> the B73, the others still retain their existing signage - with perhaps an
>>>> uncovered sign here and there.  I traced the
>>>> 
>>>> I'd suggest we can use the wiki to coordinate as these references
>>>> change?   That way we can ensure the entire route is renamed at once,
>>>> rather than a patchwork?
>>>> 
>>>> Ian.
>>>> P.S. Of course there have been a few routes (M7, A31/M31 approaching
>>>> Albury) that have been this way for a while, and aren't at issue here.
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Talk-au mailing list
>>>> Talk-au at openstreetmap.org
>>>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/attachments/20130503/616a9529/attachment-0001.html>
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 17:13:04 +1000
>> From: Ben Johnson <tangararama at gmail.com>
>> To: Ian Sergeant <inas66+osm at gmail.com>
>> Cc: OSM - Talk-au <Talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
>> Subject: Re: [talk-au] Alphanumeric references in NSW
>> Message-ID: <C1B0A966-8138-40EA-852C-A8A56E55ACED at gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>> 
>> I agree this can be better coordinated, but not everyone uses or reads this list. 
>> 
>> I have a particular interest in these new routes? (don't ask).  
>> 
>> B74 is already majorly unveiled at the Tuggerah junction with M1 - so I turned B74 on in OSM.
>> http://www.ozroads.com.au/NSW/Special/MAB/563.jpg
>> http://www.ozroads.com.au/NSW/Special/MAB/558.jpg
>> https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-vEehFafhUeo/UWnpzpBCuNI/AAAAAAAAALg/rKvL4389seo/s1600/IMG_3205.JPG
>> 
>> We should expect large-scale coverplate removal any day now. RMS has been waiting until end of school holidays, and also I believe for the release of Sydway and UBD 2014 editions which apparently are now available with new route numbers? so I think we're about to see big changes fast. So brace yourselves.
>> 
>> I'm going that way again tomorrow and will investigate B70 to see if there's any action there yet. I've created a few route relations for alphas in Central Coast and Newcastle region, but haven't set the ref tags yet until there is on-ground signage in place.  This will make it easier (when the signs are unveiled) to select an entire route in JOSM and add the ref tag.  If you agree with this method then I'm happy to volunteer to continue creating relations for the new routes.  I have 5 weeks holidays starting soon with plenty of spare time and I want to get back into contributing to the project.
>> 
>> What should become of the old routes?  Should old_ref be retained, should old route relations remain?
>> 
>> Regard hierachies - have we agreed that all A routes are Trunk, and all B routes are Primary?  Should former the "State" routes (e.g. SR83 Old Pacific Hwy from Gosford to Doyalson) currently assigned as a Primary road now be lowered to Secondary as it loses its route number.
>> 
>> Happy to help out - but I don't want to step on toes.
>> 
>> BJ
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 03/05/2013, at 3:07 PM, Ian Sergeant <inas66+osm at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I've noticed a few people are changing the references in NSW to the alphanumeric references before the signage has changed.
>>> 
>>> I don't see the purpose of this.  I doesn't correspond to what is on the ground, it must be confusing to people actually trying to use OSM for navigation.  Also, given it is the RTA coordinate this, it wouldn't be surprising if some of the routes actually differed from the proposed routes on the webpage.
>>> 
>>> To the best of my knowledge the only route that has been re-referenced is the B73, the others still retain their existing signage - with perhaps an uncovered sign here and there.  I traced the 
>>> 
>>> I'd suggest we can use the wiki to coordinate as these references change?   That way we can ensure the entire route is renamed at once, rather than a patchwork?
>>> 
>>> Ian.
>>> P.S. Of course there have been a few routes (M7, A31/M31 approaching Albury) that have been this way for a while, and aren't at issue here. _______________________________________________
>>> Talk-au mailing list
>>> Talk-au at openstreetmap.org
>>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>> 
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/attachments/20130503/fecea80f/attachment-0001.html>
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Fri, 3 May 2013 21:00:04 +1000
>> From: Ian Sergeant <inas66+osm at gmail.com>
>> To: Ben Johnson <tangararama at gmail.com>
>> Cc: OSM - Talk-au <Talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
>> Subject: Re: [talk-au] Alphanumeric references in NSW
>> Message-ID:
>>   <CALDa4YJeiNJcD-J3a=Ywgi_fL3Nm97oR+GQNkEwWjXcHLWu1LA at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>> 
>> On 3 May 2013 17:13, Ben Johnson <tangararama at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> We should expect large-scale coverplate removal any day now. RMS has been
>>> waiting until end of school holidays, and also I believe for the release of
>>> Sydway and UBD 2014 editions which apparently are now available with new
>>> route numbers? so I think we're about to see big changes fast. So brace
>>> yourselves.
>> If you're fairly confident, I would be happy to live with the new
>> references a few weeks in advance, if that's what we decide.  It is
>> primarily just the hotch-potch I'd like to avoid.
>> 
>> What should become of the old routes?  Should old_ref be retained, should
>>> old route relations remain?
>> 
>> I think where it is easy to retain the old_ref during the transition we
>> should.  However, these routes have changed so many times, and we don't
>> currently have the schema to retain every variation old route, so I see it
>> just as a transitional thing.
>> 
>> 
>>> Regard hierachies - have we agreed that all A routes are Trunk, and all B
>>> routes are Primary?  Should former the "State" routes (e.g. SR83 Old
>>> Pacific Hwy from Gosford to Doyalson) currently assigned as a Primary road
>>> now be lowered to Secondary as it loses its route number.
>> 
>> I think reflects our current agreement.  And finally we'll be able to have
>> a deterministic algorithm at least for trunk and primary.
>> 
>> I imagine the RMS in their wisdom are going to call the Hume south of
>> Berrima the A31, rather than M31, so we'll have to make a call on whether
>> we keep that as motorway.  I'd personally be in favour of doing so.
>> 
>> Ian.
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL: <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/attachments/20130503/4696a56f/attachment.html>
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Talk-au mailing list
>> Talk-au at openstreetmap.org
>> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>> 
>> 
>> End of Talk-au Digest, Vol 71, Issue 2
>> **************************************
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Talk-au mailing list
> Talk-au at openstreetmap.org
> http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au



More information about the Talk-au mailing list