[talk-au] NSW Transport Data Exchange (TDX)

Andrew Harvey andrew.harvey4 at gmail.com
Sun Nov 24 11:08:11 UTC 2013

Just an FYI I've made some changes to the script I wrote to generate a
.osm file from the TDX GTFS stops.txt file.

Hot off the press at http://tianjara.net/data/tdx.nsw.gov.au/non-cc-license/

I'm NOT talking about importing, I'm simply posting this update
because it may be useful as a post-process step to enhance/richen the
OSM data, or for future import work.

On 21 February 2013 14:00, Michael Gratton <mike at vee.net> wrote:
> On 20/02/13 22:24, Andrew Harvey wrote:
>> Hmm... seems like they changed from CC-BY back to a custom license?
> Yeah, there's some onerous clauses for attribution and re-distribution
> and what-not. Pity. I notice you have a copy under the CC-BY licence, I
> wonder if that would that be suitable for use for a initial import to OSM?
>> On 22/01/13 23:17, Michael Gratton wrote:
>>> From the sounds of it, one thing they are anxious is having old
>>> route/timetable data being out in public.
>> I'm not sure whats wrong with keeping historical records...
>> In my view, the less restrictions they place on the data, the more
>> freely it will flow, creating more competition and innovation among
>> people using the data and building products incorporating the data...
> Indeed.
> I figure they don't want random members of the public using a service
> that publishes PT timetable data for Sydney, thinking the data is
> accurate but that is actually out of date. It would be misleading the
> user if the service said (say) there's a bus due in 10 minutes when
> there's not, because the timetable has changed. The user would possibly
> assume that Sydney Buses is at fault (I know I would) rather than blame
> the service with the out-of-date data. This would not only make
> Transport NSW/Sydney Buses/City Rail/etc look bad, but it would also
> inconvenience the public.
>> Probably worth another look though, but I believe,
>> * It didn't say which roads were used for the route, just station to
>> station (but since the stations are fairly close you could infer)
>> * I don't think it used the common route names, but rather each
>> timetabled journey was recorded as a separate route.
> GTFS feeds (optionally) includes route shapes, which can be used to
> render the actual routes. Since GMaps currently only does that for rail,
> I assume the TpNSW GTFS feed only contains shapes for that.
> There is a notion of both routes and trips in GTFS, where a route is
> effectively a collection of trips, and where a trip is a sequence of
> stops, ordered by arrival and departure times. Both routes and trips
> have human readable names and other descriptive information.
>> You can still include this into OSM, its just you need to decide is it
>> better to do a mass import, or collect it naturally via the traditional
>> OSM way of going out and observing what is out there.
>> See http://tianjara.net/data/tdx.nsw.gov.au/. Mind you I haven't looked
>> any further into it since my initial investigation.
> I did have a look at that, cheers. For a previous paid project I have
> some Python code useful for representing and generating GTFS, I was
> thinking of extending that if TpNSW fixes their licence.
> I think it is worthwhile doing a combination import-and-maintain in
> conjunction with the traditional approach, as I outlined before:
> <http://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk-au/2013-January/009784.html>
> - basically a mass import combined with a bot to keep it up to date.
> This can be combined with the traditional approach, which definitely has
> advantages but I don't think scales to something like keeping PT data
> complete and up-to-date.
> //Mike
> --
> ⊨ Michael Gratton, Percept Wrangler.
> ⚙ <http://mjog.vee.net/>

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