[talk-au] Local Government Areas without Councils

Warin 61sundowner at gmail.com
Wed Dec 21 21:48:45 UTC 2016


On 21-Dec-16 05:10 PM, Warin wrote:
> Hummm
> How about looking at it from a data consumers view point?
> Who would use boundary level 6  and what for?
>
> A resident/occupier/potential purchaser/developer may want to know who 
> is the relevant authority for a particular property ...
> A new employee many want confirmation of the boundaries of the 
> authority they are working for.
>  I suppose you could ask a real estate agent (joke) or look in OSM ...
> If you are in one of these 'unincorporated areas' then with Andrew's' 
> 'rule' you won't get an answer.. not much help.
>
> I would think that the 'rule' is easily expanded to include 
> unincorporated areas.
> What is/are  the objection/s to this expansion? Other than 'it is not 
> in the wiki'.
>
>  On 21-Dec-16 11:35 AM, Andrew Davidson wrote:
>> It's pretty simple:
>>
>> 1. Admin level 6 boundaries are supposed to enclose a "Local 
>> Government Authority".
>>
>> 2. In NSW the only form of "Local Government Authority" are councils 
>> incorporated under the Local Government Act.
>>
>> 3. The areas covered by these councils are "incorporated areas".
>>
>> 4. The three polygons in the LPI dataset labelled "UNINCORPORATED" 
>> represent areas that are not in the "incorporated areas" and 
>> therefore have no "Local Government Authority".
>>
>> 5. You don't put boundaries around things that don't exist.
>
> Unincorporated areas exit.
> They form a similar role to 'Local Councils'.
> The areas do not overlap, in fact sharing the same ways/part boundaries.
> There would be no data conflict in adding these to boundary level 6.

Looking at 
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:boundary%3Dadministrative#10_admin_level_values_for_specific_countries 

the United kingdom for level 6 boundary has "administrative counties / 
Unitary authorities <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitary_authority>, 
City of London"

And the wiki on Unitary authorities 
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitary_authority> says in part "type of 
local authority that has a single tier and is responsible for all local 
government <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_government> functions 
within its area"



>
>>
>> QED.
>>
>> The SA case is complicated by the existence of the Outback 
>> Communities Authority. According to the Office of Local Government 
>> it's not included:
>>
>> http://www.dpti.sa.gov.au/local_govt.
>>
>> Which is supported by the fact that the name includes the phrase 
>> "unincorporated area".
>>
>> On 2016-12-21 09:15, cleary wrote:
>>>
>>> I have been adding administrative boundaries in NSW and SA using the
>>> Government data for which OSM has been given explicit permission. I am
>>> currently working on the "Pastoral Unincorporated Area" in SA and
>>> another mapper commented that it was inappropriate. I responded but my
>>> response appears not to have satisfied the other mapper.  I then found
>>> that the same mapper had deleted the "Unincorporated Area of New South
>>> Wales" because it was not administered by a council.
>>>
>>> Both of these "unincorporated" areas are defined and designated in the
>>> respective government datasets, that is (1) South Australian Government
>>> Data - Local Government Areas and (2) LPI NSW Administrative Boundaries
>>> - Local Government.
>>>
>>> The issue for the other mapper appears to be the acceptability of the
>>> form of governance of these areas. While the majority of local
>>> government areas are administered by councils, this model works less
>>> well in areas which are sparsely populated. The Pastoral Unincorporated
>>> Area in South Australia is administered by a designated authority, the
>>> Outback Communities Authority, which is not a council either in name or
>>> in the usual sense. I am aware of three other designated local
>>> government areas in South Australia that do not have councils - two are
>>> administered by the indigenous residents although they appear to have
>>> some form of executive committee to make routine decisions. One
>>> designated local government area does not appear to have a council 
>>> and I
>>> have not ascertained the form of governance.  In the Unincorporated 
>>> Area
>>> of New South Wales, responsibilities are dispersed and do not rest with
>>> any one body, for example roads are managed by the Roads and Maritime
>>> Services (state authority) and there are local advisory committees in
>>> some isolated communities.
>>>
>>> The key issue is whether the form of governance in an area should
>>> determine whether or not areas should be mapped in OSM. It seems to me
>>> to be akin to removing Northern Territory and ACT on the basis that 
>>> they
>>> have different forms of governance and are not proper states!
>>>
>>> The comments on the Pastoral Unincorporated Area can be viewed at
>>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/44528330#map=12/-34.3720/140.4687 
>>>
>>> The relation for the Pastoral Unincorporated Area is at
>>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/6804541
>>> The deleted relation for Unincorporated Area of New South Wales is at
>>> http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5892272 and refers to Changeset
>>> #44531564
>>>
>>> Do other members of the OSM community have a view on whether the 
>>> form of
>>> governance should determine what areas are shown on the map and
>>> particularly whether local government areas should be included if they
>>> are not administered by councils.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Talk-au mailing list
>>> Talk-au at openstreetmap.org
>>> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
>>>
>>
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>
>
>

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