[talk-au] Talk-au Digest, Vol 107, Issue 4

Timothy Ney neyfamily1 at gmail.com
Wed May 4 23:50:58 UTC 2016


Re: place=? An oldie but no past conclusion.

My other concern is the rendering of urban centres at certain zoom
extents.  If for example, we demote all of the "towns" between Rockhampton
and Mackay to Hamlets or Villages, we are going to have 300 km of highway
with nothing shown at higher levels.  At present, each of the small towns
(may have 1 pub, some services, a shop and a few houses), are labelled as
towns, and appear nicely if you zoom to a level where you can see Mackay
and Rockhampton on the same map.  These "towns" indicate to drivers where
they are likely to find at least some services easily.  It is difficult,
unless you know the areas, to zoom in on a particular area to locate a
"village" or "hamlet" on a 300km piece of highway, where the "towns: are
30-40km apart.  The same, is likely to happen between almost all "cities"
in Queensland, e.g. Rockhampton - Emerald (300km) , Emerald to Longreach
(500km) , Mackay to Bowen (200km), etc

I suspect, an extra tag would have to be added to ensure they render at
higher zoom levels, which ultimately bring us back to simply calling them
"towns".

On Wed, May 4, 2016 at 10:00 PM, <talk-au-request at openstreetmap.org> wrote:

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>    1. Re: place=? An oldie but no past conclusion. (Alex Sims)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 4 May 2016 17:58:27 +0930
> From: Alex Sims <alex at softgrow.com>
> To: OSM - Talk-au <talk-au at openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [talk-au] place=? An oldie but no past conclusion.
> Message-ID: <C2BF1C35-2131-45FD-9BC5-7375CA9F7F47 at softgrow.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> I’ve had an involvement in this discussion in the past and wonder if a way
> forward might be to include an adjusting factor for remoteness.
>
> If you have a look at the map at
> http://www.abs.gov.au/websitedbs/d3310114.nsf/home/remoteness+structure
>
> which shows the Australian Remoteness Index this suggests that we could
> define town, hamlet, etc according to population but then adjust the
> population limits downward for remote areas.
>
> The other point I’d make (as I did some time ago) is that the labels are
> “British English” labels and form a hierarchy where the names make sense in
> the UK but shouldn’t be taken as a slight against any area. They are merely
> a series of words that define the level of population centre.
>
> Looking at
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:place#Populated_settlements.2C_urban_and_rural
> this seems to support and adjustment based on remoteness in the Australian
> context.
>
> Alex
>
> > On 4 May 2016, at 8:11 AM, Warin <61sundowner at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 4/05/2016 12:50 AM, Christopher Barham wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 03 May 2016, at 14:22, Warin < <mailto:61sundowner at gmail.com>
> 61sundowner at gmail.com <mailto:61sundowner at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >> <SNIP>
> >>>
> >>> Why judge on the population?
> >>> Larger populations get more services - Police, Medical, Education ...
> they go hand in hand.
> >>> Populations are usually stated - on the entry signs to towns, villages
> .. and collected by the ABS. So verifiable and accessible.
> >>> Yes they do change .. but not by vast amounts quickly.
> >>> Usually the relationship between population centres remains fairly
> static .. if one grows so do the surrounding ones.
> >>> Much easier to quickly asses and correctly tag this way. So it
> satisfies the KISS principle.
> >> </SNIP>
> >>
> >> City is not just a function of population - It’s can also be a
> political appointment/status? - e.g. Charters Towers and Redcliffe are
> cities : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Australia <
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_Australia>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Yes there is an 'official designation system' ... subject to political
> pressure and separate rules for each state.
> > I think the best guide we have is the population, certainly I think it
> is much better than the officially given 'status'.
> >
> > ----------------------
> > I did leave out of the original post that the ABS data may include more
> 'cities' with populations over 10,000 than the present OSM data base
> contains ... yet to sort that out.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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