[talk-au] place equals what BY features
61sundowner at gmail.com
Sat May 14 04:30:03 UTC 2016
On 5/13/2016 9:22 PM, cleary wrote:
> I agree that there is a need to improve our classification of places.
> However I think that taking population as the sole criterion will
> create more discrepancies than we have already.
I think of it as a guide. In fact most of the OSM wiki to me is a guide.
> For example, I live in a Sydney suburb that has a population greater
> than the gazetted "state suburb" of Sydney (roughly the CBD area). If
> we adopted a strictly population-based criterion, my suburb and many
> others with more than 10,000 people would be "towns" in OSM and Sydney
> CBD be a "town". My suburb has about the same population as the rural
> city of Griffith, NSW. I think Griffith is a city but my suburb is not.
Yep. I take your point. Closer to home is Penrith .. a city or a suburb
> I won't keep going on and on, but there are many questions thrown up
> by relying on population alone as the criterion for determining if a
> place is a city or town or whatever. I think it has to be a sort of
> "common sense" decision taking population into account but other
> factors as well. But I do support the need to try to clarify our
> classifications and appreciate the difficulty in resolving the issue.
A start on the classification by features? Warning .. draft only!
A city at a minimum has;
one hospital with emergency services
more than one police station
more than one public library
more than one secondary school
more than one doctor's practice
more than one petrol station
more than one bank
more than one ATM
more than one Post Office
A town at a minimum has;
a police station
a public library
a secondary school
a doctor's practice
a petrol station
a Post Office
A village at a minimum has;
a convenience store
> On Fri, May 13, 2016, at 07:11 PM, Warin wrote:
>> On 5/13/2016 11:36 AM, Warin wrote:
>>> On 5/6/2016 9:51 AM, Simon Slater wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 5 May 2016 10:10:35 AM Ian Sergeant wrote:
>>>>> 1. Any attempt to make something render on sparse parts of the map, is
>>>>> a rendering issue. Any renderer is free to pre-process the data based
>>>>> on a population and remoteness algorithm if they wish.
>>>>> 2. Personally, I make anything a town if it has services. If it has a
>>>>> pub, a take-away, a supermarket, a post-office, and a fuel station,
>>>>> then it's a town. I save hamlet for a population grouping without any
>>>>> services, and a locality for a place where there is essentially no
>>>>> population clustering. This is a natural skew towards remoter
>>>>> destinations becoming towns, because they are service towns for
>>>>> surrounding areas, rather than necessarily having large populations
>>>> Post offices may be a good guide. 25 years ago there were at least 4 post offices
>>>> between here (Swan Hill) and Kerang. Now there is only one at Lake Boga, but
>>>> all the other post codes are still in place, mail routing through either
>>>> Kerang or Swan Hill.
>>> Australia post has;
>>> Post Office (PO) and
>>> Local Post Office (LPO)
>>> The LPO is usually smaller and within another business ..usually a local convenience store.
>>> The ABS has this
>>> "*Identifying towns*
>>> In this review *small towns*have been defined as population centres with between
>>> 1,000 and 19,999 people. Towns might ideally be distinguished from
>>> cities and from smaller rural communities according to functional
>>> criteria, such as the presence or absence of various educational,
>>> medical, recreational and retail services, together perhaps with
>>> administrative criteria such as whether or not a city or town
>>> council operated from within the town. While such conceptual
>>> distinctions might be made, it is difficult to put such definitions
>>> into practice. The above population size was therefore considered
>>> the most suitable alternative which would generally encompass these
>>> I tend to concur with this - simplest to implement and verify. I do
>>> note the 'medical' services that ABS have for identifying towns etc,
>>> that may be a usefull criteria in addition to number of pubs, petrol
>>> stations etc.
>> I have gotten some 1,400 'towns from the OSM data base .. many of these have no population given, but from those that do;
>> Penrith 178465
>> Bunbury 64385
>> Maitland 61431
>> Palmerston 46618
>> Melton 45624
>> Port Macquarie 41723
>> Sunbury 33062
>> Pakenham 32911
>> Nowra 32556
>> Albany 30656
>> Devonport 29051
>> Goulburn 21484
>> Busselton 21407
>> Ocean Grove 16093
>> Bacchus Marsh 14913
>> Port Hedland 13772
>> Torquay 13339
>> Coolum Beach 13154
>> Broome 12766
>> Batemans Bay 12000
>> Lara 11192
>> Drysdale 10927
>> Compare this to the 'cities';
>> Charters Towers 8,234
>> Charleville 4,700
>> Caloundra 3,550
>> Winton 1,337
>> Winton and Charleville 'cities' when Broome is not? No .. sorry that makes no sense, even when taking into account 'remoteness' and services.
>> And the other end of 'towns';
>> Marble Bar 194
>> Coral Bay 190
>> Coorow 176
>> Guilderton 146
>> Marvel Loch 98
>> Popanyinning 87
>> Betoota 0
>> Ooldea 0
>> Ooldea used to have a hermit, he could still be kicking ... the others there were railway workers with homes elsewhere.
>> Betoota used to have 1, but he died.
>> I don't think anyone could call these 'towns'! Even on a 'services' scale.
>> _There is a clear disparity here. _
>> I hope to get all the 'towns' populations that are missing entered from the ABS census 2011, and then look again at these 'towns'.
>> I have entered all the 'cities' population data that was missing, so that bit is done.
>> I am yet to get the villages list, if I do!
>> As a reminder of what I first proposed
>> OSM wiki presently has by population
>> __I think for Australia;
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