[talk-au] Roadside rest areas tagged as camp sites

[David Bannon]

Warin, may I please refer you to the first sentence from the 
tourism=camp_site tag ?

"A campsite <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/en:campsite> or campground is 
an area, usually divided into a number of pitches, where people can camp 
overnight using tents or camper vans or caravans."

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:tourism%3Dcamp_site

Similarily, the camp_site=* page says

"In OSM speak, a "camp site" is the larger area that contains one or 
more "camp pitches". A camp pitch is the area where one caravan, motor 
home or family tent is setup."

The page goes on to define camp_site=basic as applying to "Roadside 
stops" as well as other likely places.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:camp_site

In both cases the meaning is clear. The term "camp site" does not in any 
way imply canvas only. People may camp  there using tents, campers, 
caravans or motor homes. Removing camp_site tags because the site does 
not suit one particular style of camping is not appropriate.

Adding tent=no might be the solution you are looking for.

David



On 19/04/17 11:57, Warin wrote:
> On 19-Apr-17 11:10 AM, David Bannon wrote:
>> Warin, I am not sure I agree.
>>
>> There are a number of what are officially Rest Areas that are set up, 
>> used and officially blessed as camp sites. Now the term "Camp Site" 
>> might mean different things to different people. To people with a 
>> caravan or motor home, and there are a lot of them, a camp site is 
>> somewhere to camp with their caravan or motor home.
>
> These should be tagged as both a rest area and a 'caravan site'.
> I have used 'rest areas' for camping .. even where I was not certain 
> of the official over night use, when the need arises.
> Usually I try to pick my overnight spots .. sometimes things change 
> and I have to take what I can get.
>
>>
>> I'm sorry (for you) that so many of them are not suitable for a tent 
>> but the truth is there is a big demand from caravan (camper, motor 
>> home etc) users and an inability to distinguish between sites that 
>> make good camp sites and ones that don't would be a problem.
>
> Err OSM does distinguish between camp/tent site and caravan site .. 
> even the usually render has different symbols for them.
> tourism=camp_site
> tourism= caravan_site
>
> Most if not all Australian sites cater for both.  Free sites may only 
> cater for one type though.
> Where a site is unsuitable for tents .. then it should clearly be 
> tagged as a caravan site. And vice versa.
>
>>
>> IMHO, we are talking about "camp sites" as somewhere you camp, if it 
>> is unsuitable for a tent in your opinion, then a tag saying just that 
>> may be appropriate. Importantly, you would be allowed erect a tent, 
>> even if you would be uncomfortable doing so.
>
> Some 'rest areas' do not officially allow over night stays. Some have 
> no area suitable for driving in tent pegs.
>
>>
>> Worth noting that the division between a tent and a caravan is 
>> possibly vague, while the majority of campers on the road (excluding 
>> xmas and easter time) are in recognizably caravans, there are various 
>> "campers" that involve canvas, some where that canvas hits the 
>> ground, at what point does that become a tent ?
>
> Caravans like a 'hard standing'.
> Tent people like soft ground .. easier to drive in tent pegs as well 
> as a softer surface.
> An area that gets used by caravans gets the soil compressed to such a 
> degree that it becomes very difficult to drive in tent pegs .. 
> sometimes I feel I should be carrying a drill to make a hole first. :)
>
> I have re-tagged this one ..
> Node: Sutton Park Rest Area (1811197082)
> as there should be no overnight here ...
> https://www.caravancaravan.com.au/entity/sutton-park-rest-area/nsw
>
> It does look suitable for both tents and caravans. But officially no. 
> See how that goes?
>
> I do think these things probably predate the rest area tagging and 
> probably the caravan tagging too.
> Changing them to rest area tagging is, I think, more appropriate as 
> that is what they are officially.
> Some have water, toilets .. those can be additional tags as can the 
> caravan/camping information.
>
>>
>>
>> On 19/04/17 08:54, Warin wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>
>>> I have seen a few roadside 'rest areas' tagged in OSM as camp sites.
>>>
>>> At least some of these are not suitable for pitching a tent .. so 
>>> they are not camp sites.
>>>
>>> At best they could be used by a caravan/RV ... but not a tent user 
>>> (I am a tent user).
>>>
>>> If the intention was to indicate there use by caravan/RV then they 
>>> should be tagged as 'tourism=caravan_site'.
>>>
>>>
>>> There now exists a tag 'highway=rest_area'. 
>>> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:highway%3Drest_area
>>>
>>>
>>> I think the tag 'highway=rest_area' should replace those 'rest 
>>> areas' now tagged as 'camp sites', this would be closer to the truth.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>>
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>>
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