[talk-au] Are we allowed to use PTV datasets (CC 4.0)?

Aaron aaronshenhao2001 at gmail.com
Tue Dec 17 10:36:12 UTC 2019


Hi everyone,

Just as an update, in case anyone is thinking of sending off another
waiver. I got a reply back from the DPC. They've found the correct person
to look at the request, and are awaiting their response.

Cheers!

On Wed, Nov 20, 2019 at 4:22 PM Aaron <aaronshenhao2001 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Thank you for the information. I've included the original email below, and
> I've attached the waiver.
>
> *Original message:*
> From: Aaron Fang Shenhao <aaronshenhao2001 at gmail.com>
> Date: Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 1:54 am
> Subject: Permission to Incorporate PTV's CC BY Data Into OpenStreetMap
> To: <contact at dpc.vic.gov.au>
>
> Dear Department of Premier and Cabinet,
>
> Thank you for making Public Transport Victoria’s open data available under
> the Creative Commons CC BY 4.0 license at data.vic.gov.au.
>
> I am a volunteer of OpenStreetMap <https://www.openstreetmap.org/>, a
> collaborative open project to create a global geodata set freely usable by
> anyone on share-alike and attribution terms under the Open Database
> License (ODbL) <http://opendatacommons.org/licenses/odbl/summary/>.
>
> We’re very interested in using the data in Public Transport Victoria’s
> open data to improve OpenStreetMap. In order to facilitate this, we need
> to confirm with you that Public Transport Victoria has no objections.
>
> In particular, there are two issues we would like to clarify.
>
> First, because OpenStreetMap's data comes from thousands of local
> volunteers as well as numerous government sources, attribution to all such
> sources on an OpenStreetMap-based map or similar visual display is
> impossible. Instead, we provide attribution (including original license
> information) to major sources like Public Transport Victoria on our Contributors
> page <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Contributors#%5Byour%20region%5D>.
> OpenStreetMap users are then required to attribute "OpenStreetMap
> Contributors" in a collective fashion
> <https://www.openstreetmap.org/copyright> when using any OpenStreetMap
> data. CC BY's attribution requirements are relatively general, so we just
> need you to confirm that you would consider OpenStreetMap's attribution
> method to attribute Public Transport Victoria in a "reasonable manner" in
> accordance with Section 3(a)(1) of the CC BY 4.0 license.
>
> Second, the ODbL and CC BY 4.0 have slightly different ways of addressing
> digital rights management technologies. The ODbL allows data users to apply
> technical protection measures to their own works so long as they also
> provide an unrestricted version of the underlying database, including their
> own additions ("parallel distribution"). In contrast, CC BY 4.0 can be read
> to prohibit any application of technical protection measures to databases
> that include CC BY material. This is a relatively minor difference in how
> the licenses are drafted, but means that in some cases, users who comply
> with ODbL might not comply with CC BY 4.0.
>
> In practice, we have found that parallel distribution is an excellent way
> of ensuring open access to data while allowing flexibility in use. Thus, we
> ask that, to the extent CC BY 4.0 Section 2(a)(5)(B) prohibits any
> downstream restrictions even when parallel distribution is available, you
> waive this license restriction as to OSM and its users. This waiver would
> have no effect on Public Transport Victoria’s original dataset and only
> pertains to the restrictions allowed on combinations of that data with OSM
> data.
>
> Thank you for your consideration. If Public Transport Victoria is
> amenable, can you please check off the boxes in the attached form and
> return a signed version to me?
>
> If you have any questions or would like more information about
> OpenStreetMap, please do not hesitate to contact me by e-mail.
>
> Regards,
>
> Aaron Fang Shenhao
>
> Local OSM Representative
>
> http://www.openstreetmap.org
>
> http://localosmgroup.tld
>
> On Wed, 20 Nov 2019 at 4:14 pm, Andrew Harvey <andrew.harvey4 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Unfortunately it is quite common to not hear back. Which email did you
>> send to? It's worth sending a reminder email.
>>
>>
>> On Wed., 20 Nov. 2019, 11:58 am Aaron, <aaronshenhao2001 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Just checking up on this. It's been 2 months since I sent the waiver, is
>>> it a normal waiting period, or did I address the wrong person or something?
>>> :P
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Aaron.
>>>
>>> On Sun, 15 Sep 2019 at 4:39 pm, Sebastian S. <mapping at consebt.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi and also welcome,
>>>> It would be good if you update the wiki once you've sent the waiver
>>>> request off.
>>>> This helps tracking what's going on.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Seb
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>>>
>>>> On 14 September 2019 10:01:34 pm AEST, Aaron Fang Shenhao <
>>>> aaronshenhao2001 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you both for the helpful info!
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll get onto sending the waiver letter to PTV. Once it comes back
>>>>> I'll make sure to update the wiki and report back.
>>>>>
>>>>> I've summarised the number of stops and routes in the dataset for
>>>>> anyone who is interested.
>>>>>
>>>>>   Transport Medium   │ No. stops   No. routes
>>>>>  ════════════════════╪════════════════════════
>>>>>   Metropolitan Train │ 222         99
>>>>>   Metropolitan Tram  │ 1673        73
>>>>>   Metropolitan Bus   │ 18241       354
>>>>>   Regional Train     │ 110         206
>>>>>   Regional Bus       │ 6644        356
>>>>>   Regional Coach     │ 859         658
>>>>>   Night Bus          │ 452         22
>>>>>   TeleBus            │ 100         8
>>>>>   Interstate         │ 11          11
>>>>>   SkyBus             │ 5           2
>>>>>
>>>>> For completeness, here's the summary from OSM using the tags railway=station, railway=tram_stop and highway=bus_stop inside the area ISO3166-2=AU-VIC.
>>>>>
>>>>>   Transport Medium │ No. stops   No. routes
>>>>>  ══════════════════╪════════════════════════
>>>>>   Train            │ 442         38
>>>>>   Tram             │ 1570        91
>>>>>   Bus              │ 4793        716
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Sep 14, 2019 at 6:15 PM Andrew Harvey <
>>>>> andrew.harvey4 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, 13 Sep 2019 at 23:29, Aaron Fang Shenhao <
>>>>>> aaronshenhao2001 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is my first time using the mailing list.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Welcome!
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I’ve noticed that PTV’s (Public Transport Victoria) datasets (
>>>>>>> https://www.ptv.vic.gov.au/footer/data-and-reporting/datasets/) all
>>>>>>> fall under Creative Commons International 4.0, which requires explicit
>>>>>>> permission to be used according to OSM’s blog. I’ve looked at the wiki and
>>>>>>> can’t find any of these specific datasets in the list approved for use.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Graeme pointed to the catalogue on the wiki of waiver status. I
>>>>>> missed PTV when doing the initial round, so feel free to add this to the
>>>>>> wiki https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_data_catalogue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Has anyone asked for permission to use these datasets before? I
>>>>>>> downloaded the GTFS dataset for a programming project, and it seems
>>>>>>> amazing: we could add all the stops and connect all the routes for all
>>>>>>> modes of transport in VIC just from this dataset?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I haven't approached PTV about this, and since it's not listed on the
>>>>>> wiki, I'd say go ahead and put together the waiver letter and send it off.
>>>>>> The metadata records have a contact email you can use. If you do send off a
>>>>>> waiver request please update the status and date you sent it to the wiki
>>>>>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Australian_data_catalogue, this
>>>>>> really helps the rest of the community see what's going on.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There'd still be a fair bit of manual work involved in an import to
>>>>>> avoid duplicates and to integrate with what's already in OSM, but with a
>>>>>> solid plan and engaging with this mailing list and local mappers with the
>>>>>> plan and execution, an import could be a good thing to do.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 14 Sep 2019 at 12:33, Graeme Fitzpatrick <
>>>>>> graemefitz1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I see there is reference to
>>>>>>> https://www2.delwp.vic.gov.au/maps/spatial-data/victorian-spatial-data#Vicmap_Transport-11 being
>>>>>>> OK but that doesn't appear to be the same thing?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unfortunately not, VicMap Transport only has airports, roads and
>>>>>> railway lines. The PTV data has bus stops and a few other datasets.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
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